190 bhp V 220 bhp Elise/Exige
Discussion
As stated previously, ex Elise 'R' owner looking to buy another Lotus. I've decided that I want either an Elise SC or an Exige S 220. There are however a couple of Exige 190 BHP up for sale which I find 'tempting' and yet I find myself discounting them simply because they are the less powerful models. So the simple question that needs to be asked is does the extra power transform the car and make it a 'must have' or is it simply a question of schoolboy bragging as in the 'Ive got a bigger one than yours' scenario. Are we talking huge and useable differences, particularly for road going use or more into extra power is better for track use.
I recently bought an Exige NA (190 HP). I found it was lacking a little, esp in the midrange, compared to my Europa S. So had it a month and added a Katana Supercharger (245 HP) What a difference, a lot more midrange and all round peppier. If I hadn't owned the Europa I probably would've been fine with the Exige in NA. Great car and tbh, it really shines in the bends, keep it the rev range and she'll be fine. But extra HP is tempting.
Cheers
Cheers
bigcalm said:
I recently bought an Exige NA (190 HP). I found it was lacking a little, esp in the midrange, compared to my Europa S. So had it a month and added a Katana Supercharger (245 HP) What a difference, a lot more midrange and all round peppier. If I hadn't owned the Europa I probably would've been fine with the Exige in NA. Great car and tbh, it really shines in the bends, keep it the rev range and she'll be fine. But extra HP is tempting.
Cheers
How much did it cost. If its not cheap then am I probably better off going for a 220 or even 240, avoiding the hassle. It may even work out cheaper.Cheers
simpo555 said:
How much did it cost. If its not cheap then am I probably better off going for a 220 or even 240, avoiding the hassle. It may even work out cheaper.
When I was looking earlier this year it seemed that the cost of a NA (190) and then aftermarket supercharging was MORE than just buying a factory "S" (220 with supercharger). Also - if you put on a katana or similar - you still ended up selling for LESS than a factory S. (As usual you don't get your money back for aftermarket mods.)
So the answer was to either buy a NA that someone else had supercharged (and hence taken the hit on the cost).
Or suck it up and buy a factory S.
Personally I went for the S but I would happily have bought an (in theory) cheaper modded NA.
Not sure if you care but a modded NA will be more of a pain with insurance and having to declare the supercharger.
Not driven the NA car but I think the S is probably more usable on the roads due to greater torque?
I certainly enjoy short shifting mine before the cam change. Makes it fun to drive while remaining at legal speeds. No idea if the NA would have enough torque to do that and still be fun.
Not driven the NA car but I think the S is probably more usable on the roads due to greater torque?
I certainly enjoy short shifting mine before the cam change. Makes it fun to drive while remaining at legal speeds. No idea if the NA would have enough torque to do that and still be fun.
I would agree with previous posts. A factory S seems to only be a few grand more than an NA model. I don't know the existing price but think I have an invoice for £6k or so for supercharging mine. I'd say the only real benefit of going the katana route is that you're likely to end up around 240 - 250bhp. You'd have to do some tweeking/spend some cash to get a 220S car there, or thereabouts. And if you aim for a 240, well they are quite a chunk more cash at day 1.
I test drove both an R and an SC before plumping for the latter.
For me it was more about a smoother power delivery (i.e. power on tap) rather than outright power and speed as with an R you have to keep it in the range where the vvti kicks in ... with an SC its just there when you put your foot down.
Less of a noticable 'kick' when you hit the vvti in the SC (some people like that in the R - and also the challenge/fun of keeping the revs high).
I later learned some people who have an R remap it for less top end power but an earlier kick in?
Still very happy I went with teh SC - and the bonus would appear to be that you don't lose the slight premium you pay for the SC from what I can see in s/h values of similarily aged cars.
For me it was more about a smoother power delivery (i.e. power on tap) rather than outright power and speed as with an R you have to keep it in the range where the vvti kicks in ... with an SC its just there when you put your foot down.
Less of a noticable 'kick' when you hit the vvti in the SC (some people like that in the R - and also the challenge/fun of keeping the revs high).
I later learned some people who have an R remap it for less top end power but an earlier kick in?
Still very happy I went with teh SC - and the bonus would appear to be that you don't lose the slight premium you pay for the SC from what I can see in s/h values of similarily aged cars.
Rakoosh said:
I later learned some people who have an R remap it for less top end power but an earlier kick in?
Top-end power stays the same I believe - it just pulls the cam change down a bit so that rather than going past the peak of the low lift cam and losing performance it switches over at that point and gives a smoother transition.Rakoosh said:
I test drove both an R and an SC before plumping for the latter.
For me it was more about a smoother power delivery (i.e. power on tap) rather than outright power and speed as with an R you have to keep it in the range where the vvti kicks in ... with an SC its just there when you put your foot down.
Less of a noticable 'kick' when you hit the vvti in the SC (some people like that in the R - and also the challenge/fun of keeping the revs high).
I later learned some people who have an R remap it for less top end power but an earlier kick in?
Still very happy I went with teh SC - and the bonus would appear to be that you don't lose the slight premium you pay for the SC from what I can see in s/h values of similarily aged cars.
Think you might have missed part of my posting. I'm looking to buy an SC or 220 Exige having owned an R for the best part of 2.5 years, although perhaps not discounting a 190 NA Exige. The R was a great car and sorely missed, but second time around I'm looking for something a little different. For me it was more about a smoother power delivery (i.e. power on tap) rather than outright power and speed as with an R you have to keep it in the range where the vvti kicks in ... with an SC its just there when you put your foot down.
Less of a noticable 'kick' when you hit the vvti in the SC (some people like that in the R - and also the challenge/fun of keeping the revs high).
I later learned some people who have an R remap it for less top end power but an earlier kick in?
Still very happy I went with teh SC - and the bonus would appear to be that you don't lose the slight premium you pay for the SC from what I can see in s/h values of similarily aged cars.
simpo555 said:
Think you might have missed part of my posting. I'm looking to buy an SC or 220 Exige having owned an R for the best part of 2.5 years, although perhaps not discounting a 190 NA Exige. The R was a great car and sorely missed, but second time around I'm looking for something a little different.
??A 190 NA Exige is an R with different clothes on. It will drive almost exactly the same as your R.
So his comment about comparing an SC to an R is directly relevant to your question.
If you want something different to your R don't get a NA Exige.
walm said:
??
A 190 NA Exige is an R with different clothes on. It will drive almost exactly the same as your R.
So his comment about comparing an SC to an R is directly relevant to your question.
If you want something different to your R don't get a NA Exige.
As above. Were you happy with the power / power delivery on your 111R? There's bugger all difference between the NA Exige and Elise in terms of speed etc, so you already have a reference point for a non supercharged car. Unlike the S1 Exige / Elise, there's not a massive character difference between later cars. A 190 NA Exige is an R with different clothes on. It will drive almost exactly the same as your R.
So his comment about comparing an SC to an R is directly relevant to your question.
If you want something different to your R don't get a NA Exige.
I loved lots of things about my car. The reason for which I want another one. The second cam hitting in always impressed me. A really excellent car. However, sometimes the second cam kicking in at 6200 was a nuisance. Particularly so when stuck behind traffic that I wanted to overtake. Fair enough, just keep the revs up but sometimes it not that simple. Allied to the fact that I was driving a RHD car in France so needed a more instant response. Secondly, sometimes you get somebody in a fairly fast saloon car that you just want to get out of your hair. OK, I could lower the cam change. However, second time round I want to try the next powerband up.
As for the NA Exige, I assumed, wrongly, that there would be some performance advantage over an Elise. There being a solar yellow with black stripes Exige which looks absolutely fabulous in my eyes one could say that emotions took over from reasoning.
The advantage of posting allows me to concentrate my choice because I now feel certain that the 220 is the minimum that I'm going to go for.
Only downside is that after 10 weeks, I still haven't found a buyer for the car that replaced the Lotus. Interest is minimal. This actually surprises me. I thought I would have had more difficulty selling my Lotus over here in France and yet it went after 6 weeks and generated lots of enquiries, not all of which were serious but I never felt that I wouldn't sell it. Just goes to show.
There is perhaps a positive side to this in so far as the choice is very restricted at the moment, wheras when I first decided to sell my car the choice was far greater, which motivated me even more.
As for the NA Exige, I assumed, wrongly, that there would be some performance advantage over an Elise. There being a solar yellow with black stripes Exige which looks absolutely fabulous in my eyes one could say that emotions took over from reasoning.
The advantage of posting allows me to concentrate my choice because I now feel certain that the 220 is the minimum that I'm going to go for.
Only downside is that after 10 weeks, I still haven't found a buyer for the car that replaced the Lotus. Interest is minimal. This actually surprises me. I thought I would have had more difficulty selling my Lotus over here in France and yet it went after 6 weeks and generated lots of enquiries, not all of which were serious but I never felt that I wouldn't sell it. Just goes to show.
There is perhaps a positive side to this in so far as the choice is very restricted at the moment, wheras when I first decided to sell my car the choice was far greater, which motivated me even more.
400SE Dave said:
simpo555 said:
.... I still haven't found a buyer for the car that replaced the Lotus. Interest is minimal.
What is it you are selling??? Just interestedsimpo555 said:
bigcalm said:
I recently bought an Exige NA (190 HP). I found it was lacking a little, esp in the midrange, compared to my Europa S. So had it a month and added a Katana Supercharger (245 HP) What a difference, a lot more midrange and all round peppier. If I hadn't owned the Europa I probably would've been fine with the Exige in NA. Great car and tbh, it really shines in the bends, keep it the rev range and she'll be fine. But extra HP is tempting.
Cheers
How much did it cost. If its not cheap then am I probably better off going for a 220 or even 240, avoiding the hassle. It may even work out cheaper.Cheers
Next thing to do is an exhaust. I'm thinking Larini, but interested in what others have done.
Cheers
bigcalm said:
I spent NZD$8000 fitted for the Katana Supercharge (around GBP4000). The difference in mid range is dramatic, top end is same, but she flies from a lower in the rev range. In NZ there aren't any for sale so my choice for an SC was to bring one in from UK or SC it myself. Got the Katana from Sector 111 and they were very helpful, good service, good product.
Next thing to do is an exhaust. I'm thinking Larini, but interested in what others have done.
Cheers
Sounds a good price on the Katana. I can't remember the price of mine fitted but pretty sure it was closer to £6k (including a remap). Might be the good old sterling/dollar as against USD/NZD that results in the difference.Next thing to do is an exhaust. I'm thinking Larini, but interested in what others have done.
Cheers
Exhaust wise many people run 2bulars. Larini options for the SC is limited and I wanted a more symmetrical solution having run a GT3 1 side exhaust previously so I went from GT3 pipe to the Hangar111 signature exhaust (for SC cars).
From this
To this:
Shnozz said:
Sounds a good price on the Katana. I can't remember the price of mine fitted but pretty sure it was closer to £6k (including a remap). Might be the good old sterling/dollar as against USD/NZD that results in the difference.
Exhaust wise many people run 2bulars. Larini options for the SC is limited and I wanted a more symmetrical solution having run a GT3 1 side exhaust previously so I went from GT3 pipe to the Hangar111 signature exhaust (for SC cars).
From this
To this:
Yep the USD rate is in the toilet against the Kiwi dollar so that helped.Exhaust wise many people run 2bulars. Larini options for the SC is limited and I wanted a more symmetrical solution having run a GT3 1 side exhaust previously so I went from GT3 pipe to the Hangar111 signature exhaust (for SC cars).
From this
To this:
Okay I'll check out 2bulars -who do you recommend talking to? TBH I've given up on Hangar 111 - I've emailed them several times, no reply at all. I assumed because I'm kiwi-based they're just interested.
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