Exige V6 Cup Silverstone GP videos
Discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb2_cq-dJdc - dry vs Nissan GTR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E96EaLakwAQ - wet vs another V6 Cup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E96EaLakwAQ - wet vs another V6 Cup
Edited by The Pits on Thursday 26th September 18:21
Trofeos are very impressive. The other V6 Cup had Avon ZZRs (which is what they use on the CupR race cars in the Lotus Cup UK series). I was not aware that he had any advantage in either the wet or dry. They do look quite cool for what that's worth!
The Trofeos were very sticky in the dry, they generated considerably more grip than the GTR was able to muster. Front end grip was very impressive for a mid-engined car, driving harder and more aggressively would have led to some understeer eventually but driving at up to 8/10 as in the video, understeer is not existant and almost impossible to conceive of on the road. I have heard from another owner that they are too soft but in slightly cooler conditions like the day I used them they are very good and not too badly worn after 120 track miles. However the morning was wet so not representative of a hot, dry summer track day. Overall, I went to Silverstone open minded about them but left very impressed.
The Trofeos were very sticky in the dry, they generated considerably more grip than the GTR was able to muster. Front end grip was very impressive for a mid-engined car, driving harder and more aggressively would have led to some understeer eventually but driving at up to 8/10 as in the video, understeer is not existant and almost impossible to conceive of on the road. I have heard from another owner that they are too soft but in slightly cooler conditions like the day I used them they are very good and not too badly worn after 120 track miles. However the morning was wet so not representative of a hot, dry summer track day. Overall, I went to Silverstone open minded about them but left very impressed.
That looks epic. What do you reckon to it as a track day car?
I'm pondering over the one at B&C currently, but haven't driven a CUP yet. I was at Silverstone today with LoT, & had the pleasure of a pax with Jim in the grey CUP, & it felt awesome. He was saying it eats pads & tyres, but generally was really chuffed with it. It felt GT3 quick, but would it have GT3 running costs?
Any comparisons with S2 Exiges?
I'm pondering over the one at B&C currently, but haven't driven a CUP yet. I was at Silverstone today with LoT, & had the pleasure of a pax with Jim in the grey CUP, & it felt awesome. He was saying it eats pads & tyres, but generally was really chuffed with it. It felt GT3 quick, but would it have GT3 running costs?
Any comparisons with S2 Exiges?
I have a very detailed account of Cup ownership on TLF here:
http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/55918-e...
As a track car it is exceptional but you have to pay a price for that on the road, mainly with road noise. On the positive side the V6 is more vocal in a Cup and sounds more charismatic. The DPM system is better and more advanced than anything you'll find on a porsche currently. The porsche systems are still saftey systems, like TOUR and SPORT modes in the Exige, the ecu will use the brakes individually to get you out of trouble. RACE mode with the Lotus DPM system is a pure performance system. Currently thought to be the best out there, but it's only a matter of time before someone else tops it of course. And it's still more fun with everything OFF!
There's no way its going to cost as much as a GT3 to run, but it will cost more than a four cyl Exige. It's quite a bit faster around quicker circuits and speed always costs money!
I want to do some comparsion videos between the Cup and V6 S plus the V6 Cup versus the 260 Cup. I have a friend with a Scura, so will try and sort something out.
http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/55918-e...
As a track car it is exceptional but you have to pay a price for that on the road, mainly with road noise. On the positive side the V6 is more vocal in a Cup and sounds more charismatic. The DPM system is better and more advanced than anything you'll find on a porsche currently. The porsche systems are still saftey systems, like TOUR and SPORT modes in the Exige, the ecu will use the brakes individually to get you out of trouble. RACE mode with the Lotus DPM system is a pure performance system. Currently thought to be the best out there, but it's only a matter of time before someone else tops it of course. And it's still more fun with everything OFF!
There's no way its going to cost as much as a GT3 to run, but it will cost more than a four cyl Exige. It's quite a bit faster around quicker circuits and speed always costs money!
I want to do some comparsion videos between the Cup and V6 S plus the V6 Cup versus the 260 Cup. I have a friend with a Scura, so will try and sort something out.
randy said:
Its a big old elise, quite like it but also I struggle to get excited as we have known that 300+bhp Elise go fast for years and they go even faster when they are 800kg as opposed to 1200kg.
Not sure this is quite the same product. The v6s are more day to day than an elise and I just did 4000 miles around europe no problem. No way I could have done that in my s1 liz or s1 k20a exige. Its kind of grown up a bit but still has that whacking great performance like nothing else on the market for the moneyEdited by bobo on Friday 4th October 21:57
Do not underestimate the transformative effect the extra two cylinders have on the whole experience. The whole car, just like the sound, is more exotic. Even if it were no faster than a 4 cyl Exige it would still be more a enjoyable thing to drive - and I'm a huge fan of the 4 cyl Exiges by the way, if I could I'd have one of each but I can't so, given the choice, it's the V6 for me.
It maybe bigger and heavier than a 4 cyl Exige but compare it to other exotics it's tiny and flyweight. To drive it really is a mixture of the two. The end result might have been a 'worst of both worlds' but instead turned out to be a 'best of both worlds'. It's also more forgiving on the limit to the shorter wheelbase car as you can see in the video, I would probably have spun an 4 cyl Exige while goofing around for the camera.
It maybe bigger and heavier than a 4 cyl Exige but compare it to other exotics it's tiny and flyweight. To drive it really is a mixture of the two. The end result might have been a 'worst of both worlds' but instead turned out to be a 'best of both worlds'. It's also more forgiving on the limit to the shorter wheelbase car as you can see in the video, I would probably have spun an 4 cyl Exige while goofing around for the camera.
Edited by The Pits on Saturday 5th October 08:43
bobo said:
Not sure this is quite the same product. The v6s are more day to day than an elise and I just did 4000 miles around europe no problem. No way I could have done that in my s1 liz or s1 k20a exige. Its kind of grown up a bit but still has that whacking great performance like nothing else on the market for the money
How are they more day-to-day than the Elise... They are EXACTLY the same inside because they share EXACTLY the same fundamental platform. The evora, by comparison, removes a good amount of the compromise associated with Loti ownership whilst sharing the 'more characterful', yet frankly inefficient and elderly V6 engine.Edited by bobo on Friday 4th October 21:57
All this said, I do like the V6 as I like all the Elise platform cars, just that after 17 years of re-hashing the Elise platform it would be nice to see something genuinely ground breaking that moves the game along. How about Lexus ISF V8, proper transaxle, nice reduction in CofG and improvement in weight distribution and work it into the Evora platform which is a better, less compromised start?
Sounds great but that car would be very high cost compared to the Exige, no way you're getting one for £53k.
Also the great thing about using the Elise tub is keeping mass so low. It's by far the lightest sports car of anything like its performance you can buy. Everything else is carrying 3-400 kilos more and there's just no getting away from that on the track. Drive a GTR and an Exige V6 around Silverstone back to back you'll be in for a shock if you believe everything you read in car magazines. The GTR felt like a tank.
A lot of people liked the Dany Bahar Elan proposal - Evora tub, 400bhp n/a V6, sub 1400kg.
Its underestimated because its based on an older tub and shares the old Exige interior but I actually think the Exige V6 is better. I would never swap a bigger, swankier interior for another 200kgs. That's a really bad deal. Who cares about any of that when you're really driving anyway? There's more room in an Exige for me plus helmet than in the GTR anyway.
Also the great thing about using the Elise tub is keeping mass so low. It's by far the lightest sports car of anything like its performance you can buy. Everything else is carrying 3-400 kilos more and there's just no getting away from that on the track. Drive a GTR and an Exige V6 around Silverstone back to back you'll be in for a shock if you believe everything you read in car magazines. The GTR felt like a tank.
A lot of people liked the Dany Bahar Elan proposal - Evora tub, 400bhp n/a V6, sub 1400kg.
Its underestimated because its based on an older tub and shares the old Exige interior but I actually think the Exige V6 is better. I would never swap a bigger, swankier interior for another 200kgs. That's a really bad deal. Who cares about any of that when you're really driving anyway? There's more room in an Exige for me plus helmet than in the GTR anyway.
The Pits said:
Sounds great but that car would be very high cost compared to the Exige, no way you're getting one for £53k.
Also the great thing about using the Elise tub is keeping mass so low. It's by far the lightest sports car of anything like its performance you can buy. Everything else is carrying 3-400 kilos more and there's just no getting away from that on the track. Drive a GTR and an Exige V6 around Silverstone back to back you'll be in for a shock if you believe everything you read in car magazines. The GTR felt like a tank.
A lot of people liked the Dany Bahar Elan proposal - Evora tub, 400bhp n/a V6, sub 1400kg.
Its underestimated because its based on an older tub and shares the old Exige interior but I actually think the Exige V6 is better. I would never swap a bigger, swankier interior for another 200kgs. That's a really bad deal. Who cares about any of that when you're really driving anyway? There's more room in an Exige for me plus helmet than in the GTR anyway.
V6 Exige isn't light for what it is. Look at the weight of a medium age Evo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Lancer_Evolution), consider 5 doors, family accommodation, cast iron engine, 4 wheel drive and turbo guff. For a 2 seater car with composite bodywork and zero frills the Exige is a lump, TBO it may as well be made of steel. The sad thing is, its heavy for what it is because of a lack the lack of detailed thought that has gone into it which, to my mind, isn't very 'Lotus'. It should have the swankier interior and STILL weigh less than 1200kg. Also the great thing about using the Elise tub is keeping mass so low. It's by far the lightest sports car of anything like its performance you can buy. Everything else is carrying 3-400 kilos more and there's just no getting away from that on the track. Drive a GTR and an Exige V6 around Silverstone back to back you'll be in for a shock if you believe everything you read in car magazines. The GTR felt like a tank.
A lot of people liked the Dany Bahar Elan proposal - Evora tub, 400bhp n/a V6, sub 1400kg.
Its underestimated because its based on an older tub and shares the old Exige interior but I actually think the Exige V6 is better. I would never swap a bigger, swankier interior for another 200kgs. That's a really bad deal. Who cares about any of that when you're really driving anyway? There's more room in an Exige for me plus helmet than in the GTR anyway.
yes ideally carbon fibre tub too and a clone of Megan Fox for the passenger seat would be nice too...
for £53k it's an astonishingly good car and there's just no getting away from the fact that it's the lightest car of its type by far. Whatever you think of it, any alternative is just heavier. If headline weight figure matters so much you should just get a Caterham and have done with it.
What really matters is the way it drives and a huge part of that is because it's over 200kg lighter than something like a 911 GT3. If you think the Exige is a lump what must you think of one of those?
for £53k it's an astonishingly good car and there's just no getting away from the fact that it's the lightest car of its type by far. Whatever you think of it, any alternative is just heavier. If headline weight figure matters so much you should just get a Caterham and have done with it.
What really matters is the way it drives and a huge part of that is because it's over 200kg lighter than something like a 911 GT3. If you think the Exige is a lump what must you think of one of those?
The weight isn't in the tub, it's in all the steel brackets that are bolted to all the steel brackets that are bolted to all the steel brackets that hold the cheap components together. Of course also the very low specific output V6 engine and clunky gearbox that add up too!
It is a nice enough car but you have to be realistic about what it is. They have strapped a very big lazy engine into the same platform and added some stability by stretching the wheelbase and track and adding some bigger wheels. Yes, Porsche have done similar many times but at least they have consistently pushed the package forwards in terms of technology and production design whereas Lotus, by comparison, have gone backwards. Wind back to 1996 and the Lotus Elise, shopping trolley engine but with ground breaking extruded/bonded chassis, alloy brakes, flat floor aero and clever use of composites. What's new in the V6?
As I say, I do like it and I'm sure its fun enough to drive but I do think its a shame its not a bit more of a step forwards.
It is a nice enough car but you have to be realistic about what it is. They have strapped a very big lazy engine into the same platform and added some stability by stretching the wheelbase and track and adding some bigger wheels. Yes, Porsche have done similar many times but at least they have consistently pushed the package forwards in terms of technology and production design whereas Lotus, by comparison, have gone backwards. Wind back to 1996 and the Lotus Elise, shopping trolley engine but with ground breaking extruded/bonded chassis, alloy brakes, flat floor aero and clever use of composites. What's new in the V6?
As I say, I do like it and I'm sure its fun enough to drive but I do think its a shame its not a bit more of a step forwards.
Its quite easy to see where both of you (Randy & Pits) are coming from. I'm sure the V6 is a great car being quite liveable, but hardly a game changer and it could be much more than it is. Its is light compared to most of whats available but the V6 car is 500Kg heavier than a S1! There are many, as Randy says 'steel on steel on steel brackets that hold the cheap components together'. I'm pretty sure they could have slowly replaced/upgraded many of these over the life of the S2 Elise but they haven't. Many of these have just been carried forward to the 'new' car, I'm not sure it truly is Lotus style engineering at work. The circa 300bhp 4 cylinder 8-900kg Elise platform would have made more sense to me.
Looking at value, I'm not sure that it is there either. At 53K its a lot of cash for a flash Elise. More interesting would have been the Evora platform stripped of all the rubbish, just the basics and a load of weight shed. A bit of effort on the engine/gearbox combo would be appreciated.
I can understand people driving the V6 and deciding its for them, for their own reasons. I still have my 2004 111R that replaced my bog standard S2. One of the reasons I changed was because I use it frequently as a daily driver and I found the 111R more liveable. At that time I saw it as worth the price of the upgrade. I've owned it since new and still love it.
The problem I have with the V6 is I don't think it is worth the price of the upgrade. I could spend 10K on my car and still have 20K in the bank or towards the next family wagon whilst spending less than 'upgrading' to a new V6 car. For me, as this is a hobby and interest as much as anything, I have decided I am just going to improve the things on my car that would make it better for me. Now that stripped Evora at the same price may have lead me to change my position on this.
Looking at value, I'm not sure that it is there either. At 53K its a lot of cash for a flash Elise. More interesting would have been the Evora platform stripped of all the rubbish, just the basics and a load of weight shed. A bit of effort on the engine/gearbox combo would be appreciated.
I can understand people driving the V6 and deciding its for them, for their own reasons. I still have my 2004 111R that replaced my bog standard S2. One of the reasons I changed was because I use it frequently as a daily driver and I found the 111R more liveable. At that time I saw it as worth the price of the upgrade. I've owned it since new and still love it.
The problem I have with the V6 is I don't think it is worth the price of the upgrade. I could spend 10K on my car and still have 20K in the bank or towards the next family wagon whilst spending less than 'upgrading' to a new V6 car. For me, as this is a hobby and interest as much as anything, I have decided I am just going to improve the things on my car that would make it better for me. Now that stripped Evora at the same price may have lead me to change my position on this.
Each to their own of course and upgrading an existing car would always be a cheaper way of going faster than buying a new one. I don't think that's a reasonable argument against the Exige V6. Lets not forget you can still get a Supercharged Elise so for those that want a 4 cyl and smaller headline weight figure also.
However if minimal mass is your aim it makes much more sense to start with your smallest, lightest chassis than the Evora tub. I'm sure they are working on a new car using the Evora chassis because there's a big investment there to recoup but until that arrives this is what we have available to buy today. As someone with no issues with the Elise interior I am very glad they used the Elise tub to keep mass low.
Adding adding weight, electric steering and pdk-only gearbox to the GT3 may be Porsche's idea of progress, but it's not mine.
You won't find a 1176kg, 345bhp car with unassisted steering in a Porsche showroom, or any other for that matter. Can you begin to imagine the praise if Porsche ever did?
I sold a much loved Elise SportsRacer for the Exige V6 and had some concerns that it might not be worth the cost to change. Having owned the V6 for a while now, it definitely is worth it for me, nearly for the soundtrack alone. As mentioned I'm a huge fan of the 4cyl Exiges. It's easy to assume the new car is 'more of the same' but this is a mistake. It's a very different car to drive. The cabin might be the same but the feel, the way the car steers and responds, the sound, the torque, the balance and extra weight combine to create a surprisingly different experience. Fortunately for me it hits the spot.
However if minimal mass is your aim it makes much more sense to start with your smallest, lightest chassis than the Evora tub. I'm sure they are working on a new car using the Evora chassis because there's a big investment there to recoup but until that arrives this is what we have available to buy today. As someone with no issues with the Elise interior I am very glad they used the Elise tub to keep mass low.
Adding adding weight, electric steering and pdk-only gearbox to the GT3 may be Porsche's idea of progress, but it's not mine.
You won't find a 1176kg, 345bhp car with unassisted steering in a Porsche showroom, or any other for that matter. Can you begin to imagine the praise if Porsche ever did?
I sold a much loved Elise SportsRacer for the Exige V6 and had some concerns that it might not be worth the cost to change. Having owned the V6 for a while now, it definitely is worth it for me, nearly for the soundtrack alone. As mentioned I'm a huge fan of the 4cyl Exiges. It's easy to assume the new car is 'more of the same' but this is a mistake. It's a very different car to drive. The cabin might be the same but the feel, the way the car steers and responds, the sound, the torque, the balance and extra weight combine to create a surprisingly different experience. Fortunately for me it hits the spot.
randy said:
How are they more day-to-day than the Elise... They are EXACTLY the same inside because they share EXACTLY the same fundamental platform.
yes ... so more or less same visibility (unlike previous exige) apart from the hugely flexible engine and compliant suspension on the v6 without the racepack. both make a BIG difference IF you live, like me in speedhump and pothole central like London. i wansnt referring to the existing daytoday floors of the platform ie high sills etc. those are still useless.
agree on your other comment re the interior being the weak point too.
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