The old Elise 111s vs 111r
Discussion
Hello people
I recently decided that I am very interested in an Elise, but have been going through the whole 'which one' process!!
I have been reading everything I can and most people say try them both, so I thought I'd share my experience.
I drove the 111r first and was very impressed, so I didn't think I would like the 111s, but I actually think I preferred it!
Although it is ultimately the slower car, I liked the way it pulled at lower revs and didn't have to wait for that magic 6k revs.
However, I think the main thing I was disappointed with was the non servo brakes! I felt like I really had to brake hard to stop it!
So my questions about this are; is this normal and if so, can they be improved?? (without complete upgrade etc)
Cheers
Mark
I recently decided that I am very interested in an Elise, but have been going through the whole 'which one' process!!
I have been reading everything I can and most people say try them both, so I thought I'd share my experience.
I drove the 111r first and was very impressed, so I didn't think I would like the 111s, but I actually think I preferred it!
Although it is ultimately the slower car, I liked the way it pulled at lower revs and didn't have to wait for that magic 6k revs.
However, I think the main thing I was disappointed with was the non servo brakes! I felt like I really had to brake hard to stop it!
So my questions about this are; is this normal and if so, can they be improved?? (without complete upgrade etc)
Cheers
Mark
Difficult to say without driving the car whether there's something wrong with it or you just don't like undervo'd braked.
For me, the brakes was the single biggest reason for picking the 111S; I vastly prefer unassisted brakes. Yes you have to push the pedal quite hard to stop the car but that's a good thing not a bad one, it lets you module the brake pressure much more accurately. However, that extra level of feel and control does tend to highlight poor brakes; my car had Greenstuff pads fitted when I bought it and it was verging on dangerous.
If you really don't get on with the unassisted brakes, it's easily enough to lower the cam change point in the 111R to make it pull harder a little bit lower down the rev range.
For me, the brakes was the single biggest reason for picking the 111S; I vastly prefer unassisted brakes. Yes you have to push the pedal quite hard to stop the car but that's a good thing not a bad one, it lets you module the brake pressure much more accurately. However, that extra level of feel and control does tend to highlight poor brakes; my car had Greenstuff pads fitted when I bought it and it was verging on dangerous.
If you really don't get on with the unassisted brakes, it's easily enough to lower the cam change point in the 111R to make it pull harder a little bit lower down the rev range.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 10th August 22:09
kambites said:
Difficult to say without driving the car whether there's something wrong with it or you just don't like undervo'd braked.
If you really don't get on with the unassisted brakes, it's easily enough to lower the cam change point in the 111R to make it pull harder a little bit lower down the rev range.
Ok, that's interesting......so, if that's possible, why is it not set lower to start with?If you really don't get on with the unassisted brakes, it's easily enough to lower the cam change point in the 111R to make it pull harder a little bit lower down the rev range.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 10th August 22:09
Cheers for the quick replies
MarkyP72 said:
kambites said:
Difficult to say without driving the car whether there's something wrong with it or you just don't like undervo'd braked.
If you really don't get on with the unassisted brakes, it's easily enough to lower the cam change point in the 111R to make it pull harder a little bit lower down the rev range.
Ok, that's interesting......so, if that's possible, why is it not set lower to start with?If you really don't get on with the unassisted brakes, it's easily enough to lower the cam change point in the 111R to make it pull harder a little bit lower down the rev range.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 10th August 22:09
Cheers for the quick replies
Some people like the big surge at 6200 rpm.
Lower cam change is a big improvement in my opinion.
Once you get used to no servo bakes they are great. First time I dove an S1 I thought the brakes had failed.
Ex77
Ok, fair comment!
I'm also getting the VX220 thing going around my head!! (But TBH, I just don't like the look of them as much as the Elise)
Part of my issue with getting to drive other cars is that I don't currently have my own car insurance policy, so not covered to drive any other cars! Had to pay out for 24hr temp insurance to try the 111s. That could get costly.
The car I looked at was very nice apart from 2 fairly heavy stone chips along the passenger side. Is this being picky with a 10yr old car??!!
Cheers
I'm also getting the VX220 thing going around my head!! (But TBH, I just don't like the look of them as much as the Elise)
Part of my issue with getting to drive other cars is that I don't currently have my own car insurance policy, so not covered to drive any other cars! Had to pay out for 24hr temp insurance to try the 111s. That could get costly.
The car I looked at was very nice apart from 2 fairly heavy stone chips along the passenger side. Is this being picky with a 10yr old car??!!
Cheers
Two stone chips is pretty good going for an Elise to be honest - the car is very low down and the paint appears to be made of cheese. The Elise is really not a car to buy if you're obsessed with keeping you cars in perfect condition.
With respect to test drives. I'd find a dealer with various cars in stock and see if they'll let you test-drive different cars back-to-back.
With respect to test drives. I'd find a dealer with various cars in stock and see if they'll let you test-drive different cars back-to-back.
SammyW said:
With a budget of 13k I'd be looking for an S1 111S or Sport 160. I might be a little biased, but your criteria sounds similar to what mine was, and I couldn't be happier with my S160.
Would need some luck getting a sport 160 these days. They can be an acquired taste for some, if OP found unassisted brakes odd then the idle on a 160 may well have him heading for the luxuries of an S2.Personally I loved my one, definitely acquired the taste
Don't forget the improvements than the S2 brought over the S1 (20mm lower, downforce instead of lift at speed, bespoke tyres etc etc, as well as the lower NVH of course that allows some of us to use their cars more - mine was a daily driver). For the 53 reg cars that you're looking at you'll also get a short tail hood (I think?), which is a huge improvement over the S1 hood and for me was the main reason I started considering using an Elise as a daily driver.
Regarding the 111S vs 111R, there have been loads of threads on this in the past. I personally prefer the 111S as is the lighter of the two cars, I prefer non servo brakes (especially compared to the 111R's sinking pedal that makes heel and toe a right pain - a problem only solved in '05 when they got a lower DBW throttle pedal) and the engine's wide spread of torque suits give and take road driving more.
Regarding the 111S vs 111R, there have been loads of threads on this in the past. I personally prefer the 111S as is the lighter of the two cars, I prefer non servo brakes (especially compared to the 111R's sinking pedal that makes heel and toe a right pain - a problem only solved in '05 when they got a lower DBW throttle pedal) and the engine's wide spread of torque suits give and take road driving more.
I didn't think there is much between the cars in terms of practicality-they are all Elises and pretty much the same. I really don't think unassisted brakes are an issue either-maybe look at the pads etc.
I found the S1 noticeably lighter and sharper to drive than the 111r and it was this that swayed it for me. That and the fact I got a late Sport 160 with hardtop which just felt more special than a boggo 111.
I found the S1 noticeably lighter and sharper to drive than the 111r and it was this that swayed it for me. That and the fact I got a late Sport 160 with hardtop which just felt more special than a boggo 111.
Yes, that's some of the reasons & just prefer the look of the S2. I went to look at an S1 last night which confirmed that!
I am looking at 2003 or later which has the short tail hood that looks a little easier to live with. I use a van for work, so will only be used for pleasure !! As long as I know the brakes are ok I'm sure I can get used to the non servo. On my test drive I was dying to try some toe & heel, but not being an expert I didn't want to make a tit of myself !!
I think I'm going to hang on & try to get as later model as I can, but the price tag keeps going up!! With summer rapidly slipping away now, what's the heaters like in these things? Presume still usable during winter!?
Cheers again
I am looking at 2003 or later which has the short tail hood that looks a little easier to live with. I use a van for work, so will only be used for pleasure !! As long as I know the brakes are ok I'm sure I can get used to the non servo. On my test drive I was dying to try some toe & heel, but not being an expert I didn't want to make a tit of myself !!
I think I'm going to hang on & try to get as later model as I can, but the price tag keeps going up!! With summer rapidly slipping away now, what's the heaters like in these things? Presume still usable during winter!?
Cheers again
The heaters got better in later model cars, although I'm not certainly exactly when the changes were. Early S2s suffer from the heater fan resistors corroding so the fans stop working which is an arse to fix because of where it's located so make sure the fans work on all speeds.
There were also two different types of soft-top, one with insulation and one without which makes a fair bit of difference to how well the heater keeps the cabin warm. I think all Lotus hard-tops were insulated (not certain of that), but many of the after-market ones are not.
There were also two different types of soft-top, one with insulation and one without which makes a fair bit of difference to how well the heater keeps the cabin warm. I think all Lotus hard-tops were insulated (not certain of that), but many of the after-market ones are not.
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