Going for an Elise
Discussion
The time has come. I can't ignore my need for a new car.
Its for the misses, to replace the mgf, going to give the old girl to my mum to have as a toy since everything has been replaced on it and its worth less than a 32" colour tv.
I've informed the bank of my intensions. Budget is 15k.
I will also be driving the lotus. We (she) likes purple, red cars. Trying to avoid silver and blue cars.
The colour is important. Less than 50k miles preferred.
I like speed, not sure if I'd regret a 122bhp car.
Also want a hard top.
Theres more. I like a bargain.
Advise please?
Its for the misses, to replace the mgf, going to give the old girl to my mum to have as a toy since everything has been replaced on it and its worth less than a 32" colour tv.
I've informed the bank of my intensions. Budget is 15k.
I will also be driving the lotus. We (she) likes purple, red cars. Trying to avoid silver and blue cars.
The colour is important. Less than 50k miles preferred.
I like speed, not sure if I'd regret a 122bhp car.
Also want a hard top.
Theres more. I like a bargain.
Advise please?
Edited by deltashad on Thursday 25th July 10:10
Join seloc and there is plenty of advise on there. Buy from a lotus specialist with a good reputation and below may be exactly what you are looking for and well worth traveling to see.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
You'll easily get an S2 111S (156bhp, about 800kg) for that money; you'd also just about get a 111R (189bhp, about 860kg).
Lotus do a rather lovely colour called Aubergine but they're quite rare:
There's also a pleasant dark red called Bordeauz:
As well as the more common, lighter reds.
I do have a hardtop but I never use it (except when one of the cables in my soft-top snapped). It offers absolutely nothing over an insulated soft-top, in my experience.
Lotus do a rather lovely colour called Aubergine but they're quite rare:
There's also a pleasant dark red called Bordeauz:
As well as the more common, lighter reds.
I do have a hardtop but I never use it (except when one of the cables in my soft-top snapped). It offers absolutely nothing over an insulated soft-top, in my experience.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 25th July 11:29
JACK6284 said:
Join seloc and there is plenty of advise on there. Buy from a lotus specialist with a good reputation and below may be exactly what you are looking for and well worth traveling to see.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
I've looked at this one. Only 2 small concerns. The car is located in London so we'll have to fly down. The next is the lack of hardtop. If you read the small print the hardtop comes at extra cost. So there the bargain buy ceases to be a bargain.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...
Nice though :-)
kambites said:
You'll easily get an S2 111S (156bhp, about 800kg) for that money; you'd also just about get a 111R (189bhp, about 860kg).
Lotus do a rather lovely colour called Aubergine but they're quite rare:
There's also a pleasant dark red called Bordeauz:
As well as the more common, lighter reds.
I do have a hardtop but I never use it (except when one of the cables in my soft-top snapped). It offers absolutely nothing over an insulated soft-top, in my experience.
The aubergine car is stunning, this car has already been sold but we love the cream interior contrast.Lotus do a rather lovely colour called Aubergine but they're quite rare:
There's also a pleasant dark red called Bordeauz:
As well as the more common, lighter reds.
I do have a hardtop but I never use it (except when one of the cables in my soft-top snapped). It offers absolutely nothing over an insulated soft-top, in my experience.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 25th July 11:29
Think it has to be either the 111r at 189 bhp or the 111s with the vvc. Can't quite get my head around the engine selections as I've seen 111s advertised with 122 and r's with 135 bhp????
On another note some body in my small country village seems to have purchased one. Hmmmmm .......
clarkmagpie said:
I have a red 52 reg with 70k.
Hard top
Black wheels
Will have a full mot from Monday.
It will need a respray but would sell for half your budget
Based in Carlisle so just down the road and what better way to run it in than a trip round the lakes!
Sounds interesting magpie. I guess it's a solid red. What spec is the car?Hard top
Black wheels
Will have a full mot from Monday.
It will need a respray but would sell for half your budget
Based in Carlisle so just down the road and what better way to run it in than a trip round the lakes!
Do you have any photo's? :-)
deltashad said:
The aubergine car is stunning, this car has already been sold but we love the cream interior contrast.
Think it has to be either the 111r at 189 bhp or the 111s with the vvc. Can't quite get my head around the engine selections as I've seen 111s advertised with 122 and r's with 135 bhp????
On another note some body in my small country village seems to have purchased one. Hmmmmm .......
Head over to seloc and you can read up on the various models and gain a lot of adviceThink it has to be either the 111r at 189 bhp or the 111s with the vvc. Can't quite get my head around the engine selections as I've seen 111s advertised with 122 and r's with 135 bhp????
On another note some body in my small country village seems to have purchased one. Hmmmmm .......
deltashad said:
The aubergine car is stunning, this car has already been sold but we love the cream interior contrast.
Think it has to be either the 111r at 189 bhp or the 111s with the vvc. Can't quite get my head around the engine selections as I've seen 111s advertised with 122 and r's with 135 bhp????
On another note some body in my small country village seems to have purchased one. Hmmmmm .......
An "Elise 111S" is always a VVC unit (156bhp in the S2, 140ish in the S1). An "Elise 111" is also VVC, but without the carpets and stuff; these are very rare.Think it has to be either the 111r at 189 bhp or the 111s with the vvc. Can't quite get my head around the engine selections as I've seen 111s advertised with 122 and r's with 135 bhp????
On another note some body in my small country village seems to have purchased one. Hmmmmm .......
However, the Elise's chassis designation is 111, so you do sometimes see them advertised as "111" when they aren't the VVC. A 135bhp car will be a sport-135 (sports suspension and a mildly tuned non-VVC K-series). The standard car is actually 120bhp (or 118 in S1 guise) not 122; there was never a 122bhp Elise variant as far as I know.
As highlighted above, model spotting can be tricky in adverts, especially as not all sellers really know exactly what they've got. Then there's after market fiddling which can make even long-term owners scratch their head - wheels are often swapped as well as interiors and diffusers. There are even mis-stickered vehicles out there though god knows why you'd bother.
A 111s should have 8-spoke spider alloys and a 3-part diffuser but the best thing to check is on a photo of the engine bay - the intake manifold on a 111s is a bright silver alloy and on a standard car it's black plastic. Everything else can get fiddled with, though unless there's been an engine swap I don't think you'll see any with a long tail roof.
I'd recommend look first at MY04 111s (which start at least as early as 53 plates, if not 03) over the earlier ones. You'll have electric windows and central locking as options and the windscreen washer bottle moved to the engine bay rather than under a front inspection panel (requiring 3 bolts to be removed and a panel just to fill the thing). Build quality also got a bit better at this time.
111r's have the same (looking) wheels but the exhaust will exit down through the middle of the diffuser whereas on the 111s they exit horizontally though the rear panel on either side of the number plate. You can't go by date alone as they seemed to have been leaving the factory alongside one another and certainly left forecourts at the same time.
Personally, I'd take (and did) a late 111s over an early 111r, though that argument can rage for pages over on SELOC. They have very different engine characteristics. I think the consensus (in so far as there can be one) is the 111s just takes it as a road car with the 111r nudging it on the track (for fun that is, rather than lap times). The 111s is also the most economical of the range with better MPG and tax figures, if that matters.
Drive both, then pick.
A 111s should have 8-spoke spider alloys and a 3-part diffuser but the best thing to check is on a photo of the engine bay - the intake manifold on a 111s is a bright silver alloy and on a standard car it's black plastic. Everything else can get fiddled with, though unless there's been an engine swap I don't think you'll see any with a long tail roof.
I'd recommend look first at MY04 111s (which start at least as early as 53 plates, if not 03) over the earlier ones. You'll have electric windows and central locking as options and the windscreen washer bottle moved to the engine bay rather than under a front inspection panel (requiring 3 bolts to be removed and a panel just to fill the thing). Build quality also got a bit better at this time.
111r's have the same (looking) wheels but the exhaust will exit down through the middle of the diffuser whereas on the 111s they exit horizontally though the rear panel on either side of the number plate. You can't go by date alone as they seemed to have been leaving the factory alongside one another and certainly left forecourts at the same time.
Personally, I'd take (and did) a late 111s over an early 111r, though that argument can rage for pages over on SELOC. They have very different engine characteristics. I think the consensus (in so far as there can be one) is the 111s just takes it as a road car with the 111r nudging it on the track (for fun that is, rather than lap times). The 111s is also the most economical of the range with better MPG and tax figures, if that matters.
Drive both, then pick.
The MY04 cars also got a modified roof seal which stopped the last of the drips around the top of the A-pillars.
The single biggest difference between Toyota and K-series powered cars is that the Toyota powered ones have servo assisted brakes with ABS; the K-series has unassisted brakes. The brakes were one of the biggest reasons that I got a K-series car.
The single biggest difference between Toyota and K-series powered cars is that the Toyota powered ones have servo assisted brakes with ABS; the K-series has unassisted brakes. The brakes were one of the biggest reasons that I got a K-series car.
Wow, what a minefield!
We went out for dinner today to a little pub called the Portcullis in Stirling. This was intentional as the last time I went there (about 4 years ago) in the integrale, the owners son had an Elise, then a tricked Exige SC. We got on well, he's a total petrol head.
Luckily he was there and I managed to bend his ear for some advice. He tells he VVC is a nightmare with the coolant pipes, also I'll get bored with the power. He says pay a bit more and go for the R in 189 spec.
Now after reading what has been said above I am as confused as before. The main reason for the misses agreeing to have this car is fuel economy. The R doesn't seem to be too economical. Also, after increasing the potential budget in my head I'm wondering if I may be better off spending a little more and going for a new/nearly new car from a dealership.
As has been said. Think I need to do some test driving.
We went out for dinner today to a little pub called the Portcullis in Stirling. This was intentional as the last time I went there (about 4 years ago) in the integrale, the owners son had an Elise, then a tricked Exige SC. We got on well, he's a total petrol head.
Luckily he was there and I managed to bend his ear for some advice. He tells he VVC is a nightmare with the coolant pipes, also I'll get bored with the power. He says pay a bit more and go for the R in 189 spec.
Now after reading what has been said above I am as confused as before. The main reason for the misses agreeing to have this car is fuel economy. The R doesn't seem to be too economical. Also, after increasing the potential budget in my head I'm wondering if I may be better off spending a little more and going for a new/nearly new car from a dealership.
As has been said. Think I need to do some test driving.
Coolant pipes? What coolant pipes?There isn't a great deal of difference between the 111S and 111R in terms of outright performance (0-60 in 5.0 and 4.9 respectively; 0-100 in 14 and 12.5) but they develop their power in a very different way. The VVC is a very linear feeling engine because the valve timing is continuously variable, the 111R has a step-change in the cams so you get a substantial kick as the wilder cams come in. You probably wont know which of those you prefer until you try both.
Other differences: The brakes very VERY different because of the servo on the 111R. Again a matter of taste rather than either being objectively "better". The 111S feels slightly lighter (because it is) and more agile but the difference is pretty tiny. The 111R has a much more precise gearbox (with six gears) but the gate is rather narrow, making it possible to get the wrong gear (quite a few people have blown up their engines in this way); the Rover gearbox is a bit woolly feeling and can be reluctant to down-shift if you don't heal-and-toe. The 111S suffers from the well documented head gasket issues that affect any 1.8 K-series powered car to some degree (you're looking at around 400-600 quid to fix it, but that will include a full belt service and new water pump); the 111R can suffer from oil starvation under heavy cornering loads (really only a problem on track). The K-series car's boot is marginally bigger, if that matters.
Generally speaking, the later the car, the better built it will be but also the heavier. Cars up to 2005 (I think) had a problem where the heater fan resistors sat in a puddle and rusted but most of them will probably have gone and been fixed by now.
Fuel economy wise, they're both reasonable but neither is brilliant considering the weight. The 111S gives low-mid 40s on the motorway but if you're using it on the motorway much you bought the wrong car; getting under 30 is hard unless you're on a track. The 111R will probably be about 5mpg lower in all circumstances. The 111S is also a bit cheaper to tax.
ETA: There's a full breakdown of the running costs of my 111S in my profile, if you're interested.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 25th July 19:41
deltashad said:
Luckily he was there and I managed to bend his ear for some advice. He tells he VVC is a nightmare with the coolant pipes, also I'll get bored with the power. He says pay a bit more and go for the R in 189 spec.
Is he thinking of the issues they have in the MGF were the coolant pipes corrode as they run along the underside of the car and drop all the coolant on the road?Not heard of it being an issue in the Elise as the pipes are protected from the worst of it by the under-tray and then enclosed in the sills. Might even be that they are aluminium, but not sure about that.
The air-con pipes do corrode because they are aluminium encased in rubber and water would get trapped between the two layers, but never heard of the coolant pipes having any issues like this.
jimgunn said:
We've got a S2 111R and stay in a small Perthshire village,drop me a message and I'll pass on my ownership experiences and meet if you want to take a look and get chauffeured round the local area for half an hour.
Sorry for the late reply Jim. Thats me back in the Uk for a few weeks. Also the bank said yes, so I can do some propper shopping.
I would love to have a look at your Elise if thats ok with you
What village do you live in btw? Is it Dunning and is your Elise Yellow?
jimgunn said:
We've got a S2 111R and stay in a small Perthshire village,drop me a message and I'll pass on my ownership experiences and meet if you want to take a look and get chauffeured round the local area for half an hour.
Jim, my girlfriend tells me she knows you, she went to school with your wife! I live at the other end of Dunning, I have the blue integrale (been off the road for a while).We can't have two S2 Elises in the village. Are you thinking about selling it?
Your PM doesn't seem to work...
Edited by deltashad on Wednesday 7th August 09:36
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