Elise Sport 160 Honda Conversion

[MrNickB]

I'll start at the beginning...



I bought this Sport 160 in 2005; one of the world's first three wheeled Elises. The previous owner had attempted to drive through a tree, which wasn't successful. Three out of four wishbone mount points destroyed, driver's door pillar displaced, windscreen cracked, door hinge bent, clam destroyed, steering rack destroyed. Other amusing problems arose, such as cut oil lines, cut coolant lines, bent radiator... After a year of DIY fettling, it was all sorted.

Some time later, at Brands Hatch...

[Mark B]

Looks nice, what's the reference to Honda.

[MrNickB]

Now that I have a working Sport 160, it was clearly time for a major power upgrade. I've already rebuilt the engine with the new Multi-Layer-Steel gasket and reinforced oil rail, so it was much more bullet proof, but I didn't feel that adding a turbo would have been a good idea.

And then I spotted something interesting on Ebay. A Japanese Honda K20 engine, which had previously been in an Elise which had been crashed. It was complete with mounts and a Honda-elise exhaust manifold. No gearbox, ECU and missing lots of bits and pieces. I'm going to add my progress to this thread; as I'm doing this DIY, and will an incomplete parts set, it might answer a few questions about what's involved in this conversion and pitfalls I discover along the way.

I've already spotted a number of areas for improvement (and some significant errors) in currently Honda Elise engine swaps, and I'll note these as I go. I hope this will be of use for any contemplating either their own DIY conversion, or as a general reference for installing this powertrain.

[MrNickB]

Progress so far - Getting major bits

Acquired engine - K20 JDM engine, sitting on a pallet. The EU Civic R is the K20A2, the JDM engine is actually the same as the JDM Honda Integra R, so strictly a K20A engine.

• The throttle position sensor was missing; I was told I'd have to buy a whole new throttle body. I persevered, and found a supplier of TPS copies in the US. That's now installed, I'll report later on whether it works.
• After lots of searching, I realised this engine had the same ECU as the JDM Integra R. (NOTE - DO NOT PUT AN INTEGRA ECU ON A EUDM ENGINE). I sourced a PRB ECU from Integrastella on Ebay.

Acquired gearbox - Standard UK Civic R 2002 gearbox. No Limited Slip Differential (LSD), don't believe an LSD would add much to the Elise.

Acquired bolts - Note that most of the bolts used on the engine and gearbox are FINE pitched, due to the alloy used on the head. Don't force standard bolts into the head. The gearbox is held on with four M12 x 60 x 1.25 bolts, two M10 x 60 x 1.25 bolts, two M12 x 90 x 1.25 bolts. The intermediate shaft is held on with three M10 x 40 x 1.25 bolts.

[MrNickB]

Progress so far - Removing engine

I was lucky enough to find a kind gentleman on Locost who lent me an engine crane. Very useful. Removing the K series was fairly straightforwards.

1. Remove undertrays. I've bought a stainless steel quick release set from Eliseparts for putting these back on again.
2. Remove halfshafts. Either ask an accomplice to stand hard on the brakes, or be meant to the handbrake. Use a lever arm to remove the halfshaft end bolts - make sure to open out the tab on the bolt before you start. Remove ball joint bolts, find some way to release seized ball joint. I'd recommend a ball joint release tool, too much enthusiasm with a lump hammer may damage something. Half shafts can be levered out of Rover gearbox with flat bladed screwdriver applied between CV joint and gearbox.
3. Drain oil. Run engine for the last time before doing this to get oil hot.
4. Drain coolant. No obvious place to do this, easiest place to disconnect is small coolant pipe in O/S sill, just in front of rear wheel. For reference, this is the heater matrix RETURN pipe.
5. Disconnect coolant pipes.
6. Disconnect PCV/fuel/clutch/any other lines.
7. Separate electrics. You should have already disconnected battery. Unbolt battery cable from starter motor. Unbolt ground cable on N/S. Plastic connectors should come apart fairly readily.
8. Remove exhaust backbox & cat. You will lose skin from your knuckles.
9. Remove bottom engine mount. This mount is to stop engine fore/aft rotation only, so can be safely removed without engine support.
10. Disconnect gear linkages. Rod ends will lever off (rubber bushes), tube ends have spring plates which can be removed with pliers.
11. Remove exhaust manifold. Remove bolts (inevitably some will be seized). Rock bottom of engine as far backwards as possible to allow clearance to remove manifold.
12. Make sure all bolts are free on both engine mounts - do not remove just yet. You will need to remove both mounts to get the engine out. Leave the clutch bracket in place, removing it is extra work.
13. Prepare crane, attach straps to engine.
14. Take the weight with crane, remove N/S and O/S engine mounts
15. Engine will now lift out.
16. Retire to pub.

Edited by MrNickB on Sunday 21st April 21:41

[jamesc_1729]

Hi

Interested to know how you repaired the wishbone mount points during the initial resurrection phase.

James

[MrNickB]

Hi. Repair of the wishbone mount points was non-trivial. It involved stainless steel inserts inside the original cross-beams, bonded with specialist glue and bolted. Other parts were repaired with stainless and bonded.

The Elise chassis is not suitable for repair without advanced metal bonding facilities.

[MrNickB]

[danwebster]

I'm in the middle, well actually coming to the end, of building a honda powered elise myself right now...

If you're a member of seloc you can read the full story here http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=351310

One point I would pick you up on, an LSD adds an enormous amount to the elise platform. Personally I wouldn't have one without it, especially with more than standard power.

[steveavxt]

Hi, where did you get the wishbone mount points repaired?

[MrNickB]

Hi. I repaired the wishbone mounts, working with an aerospace adhesive company. I was lucky in that the chassis was straight and only the end parts pulled out, and that I was able to clean up the area to get the adhesive to hold.

I do not want to give any advice on bonding the Elise chassis as I do not believe it is safe to do in 99% of cases, and do not want to be involved in someone's chassis falling apart mid corner!

[MrNickB]

Hi Dan, thanks for the link to your build. I may well have questions for you! Which kit are you using, or are you making your own parts?

You may well be right about the LSD; I do always have the option to fit one later.

[Scuffers]

danwebster said:

One point I would pick you up on, an LSD adds an enormous amount to the elise platform. Personally I wouldn't have one without it, especially with more than standard power.

to a point, I could not disagree more...

until you get to silly HP, the Elise really does not need an LSD, period.

if your spinning a wheel, sort the suspension out.

[danwebster]

I didn't say it needs one, but I personally wouldn't have one without it.

Life isn't all about chasing laptimes and 'sorting your suspension out' if you spin a wheel. The car is immeasurably more fun to drive with an LSD fitted, in my humble opinion, especially in the wet.

Nick - i'm using mounts developed by a local firm, its not on the market.

[Scuffers]

danwebster said:

I didn't say it needs one, but I personally wouldn't have one without it.

Life isn't all about chasing laptimes and 'sorting your suspension out' if you spin a wheel. The car is immeasurably more fun to drive with an LSD fitted, in my humble opinion, especially in the wet.

who said anyhting about laptimes?

Look, simple facts of the matter are that if you are loosing traction on one wheel then it's being unloaded too much.

Adding a torsen to this will make zero odds as it has to have something to react to (and a lifted wheel is nothing), so unless your planning on putting in a plated diff, then it's going to make zero odds....

Only time I can see that being useful is off road (unlikely in an Elise) or if you want to be a drift-king

[danwebster]

Lets not spam the good fellow's thread with a debate on how or why an LSD works or is necessary. I like going sideways therefore I believe a diff is an absolute must. I know very well how they work and don't spend much time with my wheels in the air, in fact I positively avoid it if I can.

Its a little misleading to suggest as fact that the only reason you might spin a wheel is due to incorrectly adjusted suspension though, don't you think?

[MrNickB]

danwebster said:

Lets not spam the good fellow's thread with a debate on how or why an LSD works or is necessary.

Hear hear Dan, I think you enjoy going sideways more than Scuffers and I!