Talk to me about the Europa S...
Discussion
Just sold my Porsche 964 C2 manual (fabulous car) and my Caterham super sport, now thinking about getting into my first Lotus.
Love the Elise, but a Europa appeals as that bit rarer and more grown up (I'm 36). I like the understated looks, the shape has improved with age. It's so impossibly rare that it shouldn't depreciate much. And I'm hoping the drive delivers many of the thrills of my Caterham but with some long-journey practicality (ie, you could drive it to the Ring without going insane) and the turbo offers good power and torque with a fairly easy route to 300bhp/ton if I want it.
Having never driven an Elise/Exige or indeed a Europa, I'd welcome views from those that have owned or driven them. It would be used for b road blasting and track days too.
Joel
Love the Elise, but a Europa appeals as that bit rarer and more grown up (I'm 36). I like the understated looks, the shape has improved with age. It's so impossibly rare that it shouldn't depreciate much. And I'm hoping the drive delivers many of the thrills of my Caterham but with some long-journey practicality (ie, you could drive it to the Ring without going insane) and the turbo offers good power and torque with a fairly easy route to 300bhp/ton if I want it.
Having never driven an Elise/Exige or indeed a Europa, I'd welcome views from those that have owned or driven them. It would be used for b road blasting and track days too.
Joel
I had a 111R non and supercharged Elise and they are brilliant track cars, and not bad on the road too...but you`ve hit the nail on the head in that they`re not so brilliant at long distance comfort....not bad but a little bit hardocre for most. I currently run an Evora S and the main reason for changing was for space and comfort on longer journey`s, combined with the Lotus driving experience, which it delivers superbly.
It has also occurred to me that the Europa might have been the car I should have bought...much lower costs and with a bit of tweaking, even more performance. I do love the supercharged V6 sound though so maybe it would be a backward step, but I`d thorough recommend you try one, if you can find one without travelling to the ends of the earth?
It has also occurred to me that the Europa might have been the car I should have bought...much lower costs and with a bit of tweaking, even more performance. I do love the supercharged V6 sound though so maybe it would be a backward step, but I`d thorough recommend you try one, if you can find one without travelling to the ends of the earth?
Hi,
I've had my Europa for 5 years now. My own reasons for buying a Europa over the Elise R where:-
I preferred the power delivery, lots of low end Torque
I preferred the 6 speed gearbox in the Europa, seemed more precise
Rarity, hardly ever see one on the road
The interior space is the same as the Elise, same dash etc. depending on what spec of Elise you compare it to, you get the lovely Probax seats which I find really comfy you don't get numb butt! Like some sport seats.
Being a fixed head it's quieter than the Elise, but much nosier than a modern saloon. It's also very small when compared to a modern saloon.
Handling; it will under-steer on the limit, I am not sure if its worse than the Elise, you can throw money at the Suspension to make it handle much better.
Brakes; The standard brake pads are rubbish, Mintex 1144 made such a difference much better feel and bite.
Engine; it's very quiet as standard not sports car at all. I have the full Milltek exhaust fitted, which transforms the car, sounds loads better, pops and crackles on overrun. Gives a decent boost in Horse Power.
Reliability; Radiator plastic ends leaked after a couple of years, I had the alloy radiator fitted. Not a problem since. The Turbo Boost Solenoid failed, cheap part fiddly job to fix due to its location.
Then the usual servicing and running costs. Engine and running gear is Vauxhall parts, shared with the Vectra and VX220 Turbo.
There is a picture of mine on the Canyon Red thread.
Paul.
I've had my Europa for 5 years now. My own reasons for buying a Europa over the Elise R where:-
I preferred the power delivery, lots of low end Torque
I preferred the 6 speed gearbox in the Europa, seemed more precise
Rarity, hardly ever see one on the road
The interior space is the same as the Elise, same dash etc. depending on what spec of Elise you compare it to, you get the lovely Probax seats which I find really comfy you don't get numb butt! Like some sport seats.
Being a fixed head it's quieter than the Elise, but much nosier than a modern saloon. It's also very small when compared to a modern saloon.
Handling; it will under-steer on the limit, I am not sure if its worse than the Elise, you can throw money at the Suspension to make it handle much better.
Brakes; The standard brake pads are rubbish, Mintex 1144 made such a difference much better feel and bite.
Engine; it's very quiet as standard not sports car at all. I have the full Milltek exhaust fitted, which transforms the car, sounds loads better, pops and crackles on overrun. Gives a decent boost in Horse Power.
Reliability; Radiator plastic ends leaked after a couple of years, I had the alloy radiator fitted. Not a problem since. The Turbo Boost Solenoid failed, cheap part fiddly job to fix due to its location.
Then the usual servicing and running costs. Engine and running gear is Vauxhall parts, shared with the Vectra and VX220 Turbo.
There is a picture of mine on the Canyon Red thread.
Paul.
I test drove a 54 plate Elise 111R with a hardtop before I got my hands on my five year old Europa S (my first Lotus) in April last year. I was also lucky to find one with the “factory” 220bhp engine upgrade (upgraded ECU and cross drilled brake discs - some were done at Hethel, others like mine were done by Lotus dealers using mod kits, as confirmed to me by Lotus Aftersales up in Norwich).
It’s very much a personal choice of what you want out of the car; I much prefer the Europa to the Elise as it's easier to get into/out of and has a softer ride. Coupled with the low down torque of turbo engine and the bigger boot it's more practical as well. I’ve done two and a half hour stints behind the wheel with no problem and find it very comfortable. The range of course is limited due to the tank size (about 200 miles per tank full when driven at motorway speed).
I’m not into getting many modifications done for the car as it is mainly used on the road, but if you do end up owning one I definitely advocate getting the radiator replaced if it has got the OEM one with plastic end caps. I was fortunate that the front clam had to come off mine not long after I bought it to replace under warranty the leaking aircon condenser (due to corrosion). This gave me the opportunity to have a Pro Alloy triple pass race spec radiator fitted; it’s well worth it as a form of preventative maintenance. I also had the misfortune (for my wallet!) of the flex pipe section blowing on the original mild steel exhaust; in the absence of a stainless steel system available from either the OEM or 2bular (one is in the pipeline – no pun intended - from 2ubular so I’ve heard) I had it replaced with a full Larini with sports cat, but kept the primary cat. There’s a video of it on YouTube if you want to hear the system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3BK5u4Jh1s . The Larini is a lot lot better than the mild steel OEM system. The only problem with it is the fit is not perfect – the tail pipes are very slightly crooked if you look hard enough, but the noise definitely makes up for it!
Other things to watch for, particularly for cars that are showing signs of having been enjoyed in all weathers include, corroded driveshaft heat shields and oil leaks (the VX motor is an oil tight engine so there shouldn’t be any unless something has gone). Mine had two leaks in rapid succession from a failed inlet manifold gasket then from a heavily corroded oil sump pan. I did go through a bit of Castrol Magnatec until fixed! Now oil consumption is as it should be – minimal.
Driving wise, I love it. Mine I suppose is lightly modified, but still does go like the proverbial off a shovel on a tank of V-Power. My ECU hasn’t been tinkered with so yes there is the well documented bump in the torque curve around 4000rpm, but get it through that and you’re away. Feedback through the steering is great – it tells you when you are near the limit in the corners and the ride is less “frenetic” than the Elise, which is exactly what I wanted (seldom will the car be tracked so the geo will remain standard). I do agree though that the OEM pads are not good; I have the originals fitted and they will be replaced Mintex 1144s as soon as I have the money!
It’s a great car, has a “meaner” look to it than the Elise and in a way it is the progenitor of some of the styling of the Exige V6 (look at the radiator grille on the top of the bonnet of the V6 and you’ll see what I mean – I was passed by a prototype near Junction 9 of the M25 in June last year and it looked like a Europa S with a bad body kit through my rear view mirror until I saw the side profile and back end, then I knew what it was!). Anyway I digress. Even though there weren’t many made, definitely on the plus side are all the components Lotus took from the Vauxhall parts bin (including some Bosch sourced bits like the coil pack).
An S will be easier (in relative terms) to get hold of than the upgraded SE with it’s bigger turbo (road tax is also higher on the SE due to higher CO2 emissions compared to an S with the same power from the engine mod as the tax band was worked out on the emissions of standard S with 197bhp). Either way good luck if you can find either one of the 2006-2010 Europa models.
It’s very much a personal choice of what you want out of the car; I much prefer the Europa to the Elise as it's easier to get into/out of and has a softer ride. Coupled with the low down torque of turbo engine and the bigger boot it's more practical as well. I’ve done two and a half hour stints behind the wheel with no problem and find it very comfortable. The range of course is limited due to the tank size (about 200 miles per tank full when driven at motorway speed).
I’m not into getting many modifications done for the car as it is mainly used on the road, but if you do end up owning one I definitely advocate getting the radiator replaced if it has got the OEM one with plastic end caps. I was fortunate that the front clam had to come off mine not long after I bought it to replace under warranty the leaking aircon condenser (due to corrosion). This gave me the opportunity to have a Pro Alloy triple pass race spec radiator fitted; it’s well worth it as a form of preventative maintenance. I also had the misfortune (for my wallet!) of the flex pipe section blowing on the original mild steel exhaust; in the absence of a stainless steel system available from either the OEM or 2bular (one is in the pipeline – no pun intended - from 2ubular so I’ve heard) I had it replaced with a full Larini with sports cat, but kept the primary cat. There’s a video of it on YouTube if you want to hear the system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3BK5u4Jh1s . The Larini is a lot lot better than the mild steel OEM system. The only problem with it is the fit is not perfect – the tail pipes are very slightly crooked if you look hard enough, but the noise definitely makes up for it!
Other things to watch for, particularly for cars that are showing signs of having been enjoyed in all weathers include, corroded driveshaft heat shields and oil leaks (the VX motor is an oil tight engine so there shouldn’t be any unless something has gone). Mine had two leaks in rapid succession from a failed inlet manifold gasket then from a heavily corroded oil sump pan. I did go through a bit of Castrol Magnatec until fixed! Now oil consumption is as it should be – minimal.
Driving wise, I love it. Mine I suppose is lightly modified, but still does go like the proverbial off a shovel on a tank of V-Power. My ECU hasn’t been tinkered with so yes there is the well documented bump in the torque curve around 4000rpm, but get it through that and you’re away. Feedback through the steering is great – it tells you when you are near the limit in the corners and the ride is less “frenetic” than the Elise, which is exactly what I wanted (seldom will the car be tracked so the geo will remain standard). I do agree though that the OEM pads are not good; I have the originals fitted and they will be replaced Mintex 1144s as soon as I have the money!
It’s a great car, has a “meaner” look to it than the Elise and in a way it is the progenitor of some of the styling of the Exige V6 (look at the radiator grille on the top of the bonnet of the V6 and you’ll see what I mean – I was passed by a prototype near Junction 9 of the M25 in June last year and it looked like a Europa S with a bad body kit through my rear view mirror until I saw the side profile and back end, then I knew what it was!). Anyway I digress. Even though there weren’t many made, definitely on the plus side are all the components Lotus took from the Vauxhall parts bin (including some Bosch sourced bits like the coil pack).
An S will be easier (in relative terms) to get hold of than the upgraded SE with it’s bigger turbo (road tax is also higher on the SE due to higher CO2 emissions compared to an S with the same power from the engine mod as the tax band was worked out on the emissions of standard S with 197bhp). Either way good luck if you can find either one of the 2006-2010 Europa models.
I see that one Europa S is advertised here on Pistonheads for £15450, and another 'S' is advertised on Ebay for £14995k.
The very low numbers of cars produced might prevent them from depreciating too much, but I would be concerned about getting hold of parts. It will be uneconomic to reproduce many parts in such small numbers. Once Lotus' own stocks are gone, you will be on your own.
The very low numbers of cars produced might prevent them from depreciating too much, but I would be concerned about getting hold of parts. It will be uneconomic to reproduce many parts in such small numbers. Once Lotus' own stocks are gone, you will be on your own.
Both the Europa S on Pistonheads (85000 miles) and the one on EBay (61000 miles) have been sold, so there are none available in the UK right now.
As far as parts are concerned I don't think there is an issue in the short to mid term, because the car is an Elise S2 derivative (which itself was co-developed with General Motors to produce the VX220). If there was I wouldn't have bought one.
Mechanicals should be fine for a significant few years to come; there are quite a few bits from the Elise (eg radiator, fuel tank, wishbones all from the S2). There's quite a few VX220 bits too, the biggest ones being the VX Turbo engine and Getrag M32 gearbox of course (depending on which forum you look at production of the VX was between 5000 and 6000 units so not exactly a limited run). As I mentioned earlier in the thread a lot of parts Lotus used came from the Vauxhall parts bin, so there will be a lot of stock for quite a while.
Lotus should be able to source body panels for years to come as they outsourced production to a specialist company in France called SORA Composites (previously known as SOTIRA I think - please correct me if I'm wrong). They wouldn't just ditch the moulds overnight either because of the investment they made in them (......I hope as a Europa S owner!). New panels are "factory order" to the best of my knowledge; I know of a Europa owner who had to wait several months to get a replacement front clam and bumper due to accident damage because those panels had to be made to order. The only problem with the panels is the cost of them, but you are talking about a car that is more rare than the AUTOart 1:18 scale model of it (the only Europa S you can buy right now and it's on Ebay! ). Even some limited runs of Scalextric slot cars are less rare - usually produced in batches of 1000 or 1500!
The trickier items will be those such as light clusters, gear shift cables (specific to this model unfortunately), window glass and some parts of the interior (except for the dash and seats that is, because they are shared with late S2s and the facelift S2 a.k.a the S3) - been there with a GT6 Mk III I once had!
By the way there is a closed group on Facebook for specifically for Europa S/SE owners. I'm on it as I've got one and there are "group buys" from time to time, so you won't be on your own for advice, parts, etc. if you manage to get your hands on one.
As far as parts are concerned I don't think there is an issue in the short to mid term, because the car is an Elise S2 derivative (which itself was co-developed with General Motors to produce the VX220). If there was I wouldn't have bought one.
Mechanicals should be fine for a significant few years to come; there are quite a few bits from the Elise (eg radiator, fuel tank, wishbones all from the S2). There's quite a few VX220 bits too, the biggest ones being the VX Turbo engine and Getrag M32 gearbox of course (depending on which forum you look at production of the VX was between 5000 and 6000 units so not exactly a limited run). As I mentioned earlier in the thread a lot of parts Lotus used came from the Vauxhall parts bin, so there will be a lot of stock for quite a while.
Lotus should be able to source body panels for years to come as they outsourced production to a specialist company in France called SORA Composites (previously known as SOTIRA I think - please correct me if I'm wrong). They wouldn't just ditch the moulds overnight either because of the investment they made in them (......I hope as a Europa S owner!). New panels are "factory order" to the best of my knowledge; I know of a Europa owner who had to wait several months to get a replacement front clam and bumper due to accident damage because those panels had to be made to order. The only problem with the panels is the cost of them, but you are talking about a car that is more rare than the AUTOart 1:18 scale model of it (the only Europa S you can buy right now and it's on Ebay! ). Even some limited runs of Scalextric slot cars are less rare - usually produced in batches of 1000 or 1500!
The trickier items will be those such as light clusters, gear shift cables (specific to this model unfortunately), window glass and some parts of the interior (except for the dash and seats that is, because they are shared with late S2s and the facelift S2 a.k.a the S3) - been there with a GT6 Mk III I once had!
By the way there is a closed group on Facebook for specifically for Europa S/SE owners. I'm on it as I've got one and there are "group buys" from time to time, so you won't be on your own for advice, parts, etc. if you manage to get your hands on one.
Edited by EuropaSman on Tuesday 19th February 00:18 to take out the typos before bed!
Edited by EuropaSman on Tuesday 19th February 00:18
Well there's not really any more I can add that hasn't already been said. I've had my Europa S 225 for coming on 2 years and done over 30k of the 62k on the clock. As in the other posts, the standard brake pads are poor, but it is unlikely that you would find one now with the originals! I preferred the feel of Mintex 1155's as I found the 1144's produce too much dust. Good luck with the search!
Hi,
I've owned my 2006 Europa S since Nov 11, it's an early build car that was owned by Lotus initially and as such has all the extras, 225 upgrade & full leather touring pack (leather dash, door sills, headliner & boot pockets etc). Also has the “must have” miltek exhaust as the standard system looks and sound weedy.
It's a great car to drive and very eye catching, only seen 2 others on the road and they were both black, unfortunately I've only done 2k ish miles due to work / family commitments etc so probably not getting the use she deserves.
I've just had a front bumper off re-sprayed as although the cars very low mileage at fewer than 22k it was inevitable stone chipped. She’s now looking like new and just been for a studio photo shoot, just waiting for the pic’s to come back and I’ll upload a couple.
Running costs have been a full service including all belts etc in Feb 12 and a minor service & mot 2 weeks ago, but this is a very cheap car to run taking into consideration the performance available.
I would definitely recommend one, but I’m currently toying with a change to an elise as don’t need the Europa’s more relaxed long distance ability and fancy a bit of wind in my hair for the summer so keep an eye out in the classifieds…
I've owned my 2006 Europa S since Nov 11, it's an early build car that was owned by Lotus initially and as such has all the extras, 225 upgrade & full leather touring pack (leather dash, door sills, headliner & boot pockets etc). Also has the “must have” miltek exhaust as the standard system looks and sound weedy.
It's a great car to drive and very eye catching, only seen 2 others on the road and they were both black, unfortunately I've only done 2k ish miles due to work / family commitments etc so probably not getting the use she deserves.
I've just had a front bumper off re-sprayed as although the cars very low mileage at fewer than 22k it was inevitable stone chipped. She’s now looking like new and just been for a studio photo shoot, just waiting for the pic’s to come back and I’ll upload a couple.
Running costs have been a full service including all belts etc in Feb 12 and a minor service & mot 2 weeks ago, but this is a very cheap car to run taking into consideration the performance available.
I would definitely recommend one, but I’m currently toying with a change to an elise as don’t need the Europa’s more relaxed long distance ability and fancy a bit of wind in my hair for the summer so keep an eye out in the classifieds…
Up for sale in a few weeks before my V6 Exige arrives in April if you are interested:
http://www.scottishelises.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?...
Was used for the recent buyers guide in AutoExpress although some of their facts could do with being corrected: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lotus/europa/61373/us...
http://www.scottishelises.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?...
Was used for the recent buyers guide in AutoExpress although some of their facts could do with being corrected: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lotus/europa/61373/us...
Edited by saaj on Tuesday 19th February 23:11
C43 said:
keep thinking of selling mine...then I take it for a drive and change my mind 
If the V6 didn't exist or if I never went to test drive it then my Europa also wouldn't be going anywhere. I don't have a single regret about buying and owning the car and I've never seen another one on the road where I am so makes it feel that extra special.Also there isn't a long period of time that goes by when I get someone approach me about the car wondering what it is.
As for the mention of parts supply, I seriously doubt that is going to be an issue. A lot of the parts are either from the Elise/Exige or VX220 of which there is no shortage.
The TVR (I would guess) would be more unreliable, need a lot more fettling, real thoroughbred engine that seems to need a rebuild every 15,000 miles. It does offer brutal performance. I already have a manual Porsche 928 with a 4.7 V8 that ticks the big power box, ok it is nothing like as quick as the Tiv as it is far too heavy, but I think the Europa would be a better foil.
Mine is going up for sale when I get a chance to post the damn add, so there are some available, maybe you just have to ask around. My advice is buy a modified one, there is a standard upgrade route you will go down and te premium for a premodded one is not high (relative to the cost of the mods)
I spent 2 years trying to convince my wife. Eventually just gave up and bought the car. I rang her on the way home and when she asked what I was doing in Bristol told her I was driving a new car home. She actually took it very well, although the genital cuffs did smart a bit...
And I agree go modded, transforms the car.
C43
And I agree go modded, transforms the car.
C43
I'm still looking for a Europa S myself, but until my other half sorts herself gainful employment rather constrained budget-wise (bit of a shame really as yours looks ace, C43 ).
I've currently got an Elise (S1 111S) and great as it is I fancy a change to something that's a little quieter inside the car. There's not many cars I fancy as an alternative. I'm not keen on Porsche looks, so those are out. I also thought about the TVR T350, but the prospective running costs put me off. The looks of the Honda S2000 are too dull for my tastes and the Honda NSX has become too rare and pricey the past couple of years. An S2 Elise (later 111S or 111R) with touring pack are a possibility, but as I've had an S1 for the past 5 years I worry they're perhaps not quite enough of a change. I also thought about a BMW Z4M Coupe, but I think I'd prefer to stick with something lighter weight. So a Europa S has ended up my first choice.
In terms of others up for sale beyond the PH adverts - there's a black S with mods and the LUX interior up on SELOC classifieds at the moment (3 pages in), although the price for that one seems a bit steep (a case of the owner spending a chunk on the mods recently and hoping to recoup some of it I guess).
).I've currently got an Elise (S1 111S) and great as it is I fancy a change to something that's a little quieter inside the car. There's not many cars I fancy as an alternative. I'm not keen on Porsche looks, so those are out. I also thought about the TVR T350, but the prospective running costs put me off. The looks of the Honda S2000 are too dull for my tastes and the Honda NSX has become too rare and pricey the past couple of years. An S2 Elise (later 111S or 111R) with touring pack are a possibility, but as I've had an S1 for the past 5 years I worry they're perhaps not quite enough of a change. I also thought about a BMW Z4M Coupe, but I think I'd prefer to stick with something lighter weight. So a Europa S has ended up my first choice.
In terms of others up for sale beyond the PH adverts - there's a black S with mods and the LUX interior up on SELOC classifieds at the moment (3 pages in), although the price for that one seems a bit steep (a case of the owner spending a chunk on the mods recently and hoping to recoup some of it I guess).
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