Lotus Elise S2 (111s / 111r) vs Lotus Elise SC
Discussion
Hi All,
interesting little question here which frankly I couldn't be bothered to search for (have tried searching for stuff on here ?)... If you'd rather I'd searched for it then please don't bother posting.. :-)
Someone asked me what the difference (apart from the Supercharger) was between the 111s / 111r S2 Elise and the SC elise.
I know the SC I think is about 220bhp (ps, whatever), but that seems to make it only a second quicker... the interior (and exterior) seem to be the same...so are they worth spending the money on when you can get a pretty decent example of the 111s and 111r for much less money ?
What are the main advantages / Disadvantages ?
For me I have a 111s and am not in the price / wage bracket to be able to afford an SC (or anything that young for that matter) so it's an no brainer... If I had £30k in my back pocket should I save half of it or spend it all ? :-)
While we're on the subject, what exactly is the difference between an Exige and an Elise ? Is it just a spoiler or am I missing something massive ?
Now please abuse me with your knowledge ! :-)
interesting little question here which frankly I couldn't be bothered to search for (have tried searching for stuff on here ?)... If you'd rather I'd searched for it then please don't bother posting.. :-)
Someone asked me what the difference (apart from the Supercharger) was between the 111s / 111r S2 Elise and the SC elise.
I know the SC I think is about 220bhp (ps, whatever), but that seems to make it only a second quicker... the interior (and exterior) seem to be the same...so are they worth spending the money on when you can get a pretty decent example of the 111s and 111r for much less money ?
What are the main advantages / Disadvantages ?
For me I have a 111s and am not in the price / wage bracket to be able to afford an SC (or anything that young for that matter) so it's an no brainer... If I had £30k in my back pocket should I save half of it or spend it all ? :-)
While we're on the subject, what exactly is the difference between an Exige and an Elise ? Is it just a spoiler or am I missing something massive ?
Now please abuse me with your knowledge ! :-)
cre8toruk said:
Hi All,
interesting little question here which frankly I couldn't be bothered to search for (have tried searching for stuff on here ?)... If you'd rather I'd searched for it then please don't bother posting.. :-)
Someone asked me what the difference (apart from the Supercharger) was between the 111s / 111r S2 Elise and the SC elise.
I know the SC I think is about 220bhp (ps, whatever), but that seems to make it only a second quicker... the interior (and exterior) seem to be the same...so are they worth spending the money on when you can get a pretty decent example of the 111s and 111r for much less money ?
What are the main advantages / Disadvantages ?
For me I have a 111s and am not in the price / wage bracket to be able to afford an SC (or anything that young for that matter) so it's an no brainer... If I had £30k in my back pocket should I save half of it or spend it all ? :-)
While we're on the subject, what exactly is the difference between an Exige and an Elise ? Is it just a spoiler or am I missing something massive ?
Now please abuse me with your knowledge ! :-)
Lot more torque for the SC. It's a good chunk heavier than your car, although so is a 111R. interesting little question here which frankly I couldn't be bothered to search for (have tried searching for stuff on here ?)... If you'd rather I'd searched for it then please don't bother posting.. :-)
Someone asked me what the difference (apart from the Supercharger) was between the 111s / 111r S2 Elise and the SC elise.
I know the SC I think is about 220bhp (ps, whatever), but that seems to make it only a second quicker... the interior (and exterior) seem to be the same...so are they worth spending the money on when you can get a pretty decent example of the 111s and 111r for much less money ?
What are the main advantages / Disadvantages ?
For me I have a 111s and am not in the price / wage bracket to be able to afford an SC (or anything that young for that matter) so it's an no brainer... If I had £30k in my back pocket should I save half of it or spend it all ? :-)
While we're on the subject, what exactly is the difference between an Exige and an Elise ? Is it just a spoiler or am I missing something massive ?
Now please abuse me with your knowledge ! :-)
The one I tried rode really nicely, not sure if the additional weight has something to do with that, or more the setup.
Nice cars.
Well actually - there is a much bigger difference between a 111s and a 111r ! Different engines, different gearboxes, exhausts are different, etc etc
Between the 111R and the Elise SC - in basic spec - they have the same engine but the latter has a supercharger, slightly wider rear rims (though fitted with the same rubber), a small spoiler as standad, and different standard single exhaust in the SC vs the twin pipes of the 111r.
Between the 111R and the Elise SC - in basic spec - they have the same engine but the latter has a supercharger, slightly wider rear rims (though fitted with the same rubber), a small spoiler as standad, and different standard single exhaust in the SC vs the twin pipes of the 111r.
Off the top of my head, so excuse the odd innacuracy if there are any:
111s: Build around the k series S2 Elise as an everyday use spec - so included sound deadening, a quieter airbox, more/better speakers (I think) and a few other things. The engien is also the k series VVC, which I've owned in a Caterham and an Elise and love - it gives a huge great spreadof torque all over the rev range and is really well suited to road driving. The 111S was the last Elise made without servo brakes too, so you get none of the disappearing pedal syndrome which affected the early Toyota cars (the main issue was it prevented heel and toe, but the introduction of the DBW throttle in '05?, starting with the Sport Racer, sorted that because it gave a lower throttle pedal).
111R: Toyota engined, so none of the reliability worries of the k series, although the engine was a little heavier (not hard, seeing as the K series was the lightest 4cyl car engine on the market for most of its lifetime). The Toyota engined produced more power and I think more torque too, although if you take weight into account the increases were cancelled out (I did a graph a while ago that I posted on this forum showing this). The Toyota engine is very different in character, and produced most of its power after a cam change at 6,200rpm (more than 60mph in 2nd gear...). The 111R cars also got more sound deadening as standard, making a standard 111R about the same refinement as a 111S, and a 111R Touring spec more refinement (I was geeky enough to do a direct comparison!).
SC: Solves the cam change over issue and peaky power by adding a supercharger to give more power and more mid range welly.
Exige: A coupé Elise with different spring and damper rates for a more focused drive. The hard top is removeable if you wish too.
Don't just look at the 0-60 times; drive the cars and they all feel quite different. Make sure you drive a good one though, as they're very sensitive to setup alterations and plenty of owners don't pay attention to geo, tyre pressures or putting the right tyres on them (Elises have bespoke tyres due to the unusual weight distribution). I've driven several examples of all of the above and my favourite is the S2 111S for its lightness and lack of servo brakes, and my very close second favourite is the Elise SC. However, as the Elise progressed Lotus made lots of subtle changes and the later cars do drive the best imho, if you don't mind the extra weight and servo brakes. I've ended up with a 2-11. Whilst the above cars all drive quite similarly (like different Caterhams do for instance), the 2-11 felt immediately and starkly different the second I drove it. It's a pure track car and occasional weekend use car though, and a totally different ball game to the eminently useable Elise and Exige range, which are great on track days and can be used on the daily commute.
HTH
111s: Build around the k series S2 Elise as an everyday use spec - so included sound deadening, a quieter airbox, more/better speakers (I think) and a few other things. The engien is also the k series VVC, which I've owned in a Caterham and an Elise and love - it gives a huge great spreadof torque all over the rev range and is really well suited to road driving. The 111S was the last Elise made without servo brakes too, so you get none of the disappearing pedal syndrome which affected the early Toyota cars (the main issue was it prevented heel and toe, but the introduction of the DBW throttle in '05?, starting with the Sport Racer, sorted that because it gave a lower throttle pedal).
111R: Toyota engined, so none of the reliability worries of the k series, although the engine was a little heavier (not hard, seeing as the K series was the lightest 4cyl car engine on the market for most of its lifetime). The Toyota engined produced more power and I think more torque too, although if you take weight into account the increases were cancelled out (I did a graph a while ago that I posted on this forum showing this). The Toyota engine is very different in character, and produced most of its power after a cam change at 6,200rpm (more than 60mph in 2nd gear...). The 111R cars also got more sound deadening as standard, making a standard 111R about the same refinement as a 111S, and a 111R Touring spec more refinement (I was geeky enough to do a direct comparison!).
SC: Solves the cam change over issue and peaky power by adding a supercharger to give more power and more mid range welly.
Exige: A coupé Elise with different spring and damper rates for a more focused drive. The hard top is removeable if you wish too.
Don't just look at the 0-60 times; drive the cars and they all feel quite different. Make sure you drive a good one though, as they're very sensitive to setup alterations and plenty of owners don't pay attention to geo, tyre pressures or putting the right tyres on them (Elises have bespoke tyres due to the unusual weight distribution). I've driven several examples of all of the above and my favourite is the S2 111S for its lightness and lack of servo brakes, and my very close second favourite is the Elise SC. However, as the Elise progressed Lotus made lots of subtle changes and the later cars do drive the best imho, if you don't mind the extra weight and servo brakes. I've ended up with a 2-11. Whilst the above cars all drive quite similarly (like different Caterhams do for instance), the 2-11 felt immediately and starkly different the second I drove it. It's a pure track car and occasional weekend use car though, and a totally different ball game to the eminently useable Elise and Exige range, which are great on track days and can be used on the daily commute.
HTH
I've owned/been in loads of Elises and having recently gone in a '12 Elise SC I'd have to say it was the most solid, best put together lotus I've ever been in. Including Evora in that comparison as well but I understand they've improved as well now.
Thing went like the clappers and didn't rattle :-O
Thing went like the clappers and didn't rattle :-O
If you're looking for a daily driver there are significant differences with age - generally buy the latest you can afford.
In 2006, midway through 111R production, they added Probax seats (much more comfortable on a long slog), the new pedal box, LED rear lights, and an airbag dash option. Combined, they move the tradeoff between lightness and usability significantly towards the more sensible.
No 111S will have any of the above luxuries (from the factory, at least), and neither will they have ABS.
A 111R may have them, depending on when it was built.
All SC cars were produced with them.
In 2006, midway through 111R production, they added Probax seats (much more comfortable on a long slog), the new pedal box, LED rear lights, and an airbag dash option. Combined, they move the tradeoff between lightness and usability significantly towards the more sensible.
No 111S will have any of the above luxuries (from the factory, at least), and neither will they have ABS.
A 111R may have them, depending on when it was built.
All SC cars were produced with them.
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