What driver training course ?
Discussion
Hi All,
I've had a look and can't find a post on here about this, apologies if there is.
Since I bent my Lotus Elise s2 literally 3 days after buying it, I figured I should get some instruction on how to cope with a car like the Elise.
What I'm looking for is an every day driving course that says this is what you do when this happens, this is how to handle the car in the wet and what to do when I or someone else does something stupid.
I've been recommended the CarLimits course and I've even bought the DVD which is quite informative, but somehow not as detailed as I thought it'd be. CarLimits courses seem to indicate they're more racing orientated, something that I'd love to do but not really the main use I'll be putting to the car, so would this be necessary ?
I've also seen the DriverSKills.com website and this has lots of videos and they also do training but this seems a bit less race orientated.
What courses has anyone else been on and has anyone got experience of either of the above ? How did you find them ?
8.
I've had a look and can't find a post on here about this, apologies if there is.
Since I bent my Lotus Elise s2 literally 3 days after buying it, I figured I should get some instruction on how to cope with a car like the Elise.
What I'm looking for is an every day driving course that says this is what you do when this happens, this is how to handle the car in the wet and what to do when I or someone else does something stupid.
I've been recommended the CarLimits course and I've even bought the DVD which is quite informative, but somehow not as detailed as I thought it'd be. CarLimits courses seem to indicate they're more racing orientated, something that I'd love to do but not really the main use I'll be putting to the car, so would this be necessary ?
I've also seen the DriverSKills.com website and this has lots of videos and they also do training but this seems a bit less race orientated.
What courses has anyone else been on and has anyone got experience of either of the above ? How did you find them ?
8.
CarLimits is very, very good indeed.
reason being its structured so that you experience and become used to the car/yourself being over the limit again and again in a controlled environment.
if s
t happens on the road your reaction is then completely instinctive as you have been there and done (some of) that as it were.
there's no substitute for experience but to get some of that type of sustained experience very quickly its a good solution.
just my 2p and good luck
reason being its structured so that you experience and become used to the car/yourself being over the limit again and again in a controlled environment.
if s
t happens on the road your reaction is then completely instinctive as you have been there and done (some of) that as it were. there's no substitute for experience but to get some of that type of sustained experience very quickly its a good solution.
just my 2p and good luck
thanks both for your input...
I know it's no substitute for doing it but I came across this website...
http://www.drivingfast.net/
Lots of interesting stuff in there... worth a read up before I go on a course I think...
8.
I know it's no substitute for doing it but I came across this website...
http://www.drivingfast.net/
Lots of interesting stuff in there... worth a read up before I go on a course I think...
8.
Car Limits is actually more road orientated, albeit taking place on an airfield. There's time in the afternoon for knobbing around and seeing what the car will do, but the high speed bend is in place to recreate what can and does happen on the road, and it's well worth doing in my opinion. Not least because a number of the insurance specialists (CCI, Henderson Taylor, REIS) give 10 per cent off for doing a day there.
None of it's rocket science - perhaps that's why you're disappointed with the DVD - but turning the theory into something practical is the fun of it all, and where it will really be useful. Can't reiterate it enough - it's a brilliantly useful thing to do, Andy Walsh is incredibly talented (my car has certainly never been driven like that before or since), and incredibly patient.
And the fact I know it's more road biased than track? I've come away driving considerably *slower* on road - having found my own limits are nowhere near as high as I thought they were, and having a lot more respect for the car on public roads.
Andy does do tuition on track as well, but that's a different kettle of fish.
None of it's rocket science - perhaps that's why you're disappointed with the DVD - but turning the theory into something practical is the fun of it all, and where it will really be useful. Can't reiterate it enough - it's a brilliantly useful thing to do, Andy Walsh is incredibly talented (my car has certainly never been driven like that before or since), and incredibly patient.
And the fact I know it's more road biased than track? I've come away driving considerably *slower* on road - having found my own limits are nowhere near as high as I thought they were, and having a lot more respect for the car on public roads.
Andy does do tuition on track as well, but that's a different kettle of fish.
Have also spent a couple of days at Rockingham using their wet handling circuit - that's brilliant. Different types of surface to recreate different conditions - rain, sleet, ice etc, a kickplate to knock the back of the car out and simulate something unexpected, it's a good chance to see how the car reacts without any chance of danger. They use water to replicate wall - so if you cock up you just end up driving through a fountain...
I did two carlimits days, the four person ones are fine you don't need the two person day - split by about 3 months so I could get my head around what Andy taught me the first time. Then I did a number of CAT days at Millbrook which built on what I'd learnt. Highly recommend doing it this way round.
Then when on track I always take an instruction session, especially if it's my first time at a track - some good local knowledge of a circuit makes a massive difference to my enjoyment of the day - finding the right line at the start of the day saves a lot of wasted time....
Then when on track I always take an instruction session, especially if it's my first time at a track - some good local knowledge of a circuit makes a massive difference to my enjoyment of the day - finding the right line at the start of the day saves a lot of wasted time....
SP really knows her stuff so I'd agree with everything above.
I've had instruction from a number of people over the years, and the guy I recommend most is Mark Hales, who I'm sure you've heard of. He's got huge experience in a lot of different cars (ex BTCC, multiple TVR Tuscan champion, and he races most of Nick Mason's historic collection), he's very quick (compare his lap times with Martin Brundle at the Goodwood Revival where they often share a car), but crucially he's knowledgeable about the theory of driving, a very nice guy and also very good with words (he's also a journalist now, and I believe owns 'TrackDriver' magazine. He's also got boundless energy and enthusiasm, and you'll get the most out of every second of a day spent with him. He usually has a car you can use, or you can take your own.
I've had instruction from a number of people over the years, and the guy I recommend most is Mark Hales, who I'm sure you've heard of. He's got huge experience in a lot of different cars (ex BTCC, multiple TVR Tuscan champion, and he races most of Nick Mason's historic collection), he's very quick (compare his lap times with Martin Brundle at the Goodwood Revival where they often share a car), but crucially he's knowledgeable about the theory of driving, a very nice guy and also very good with words (he's also a journalist now, and I believe owns 'TrackDriver' magazine. He's also got boundless energy and enthusiasm, and you'll get the most out of every second of a day spent with him. He usually has a car you can use, or you can take your own.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 7th January 22:24
I think there are two sides to this on the road. The first is how to deal with a situation when it happens. The second, and probably the most important one is how to predict and avoid these situations in the first place.
If your intention is mostly road driving then I'd say do the second type first. Cadence (www.cadence.co.uk) have a very good reputation. I first did IAM, which was a good taster and then progressed on via time with John Lyon, who I don't think still teaches but whose book published last year is well worth getting. Since then I've used a few other individuals, mostly ex police instructors and each time my driving has come on in big steps.
How to handle a situation if you get into it is something you need to do off the road. My only recommendation would be for Don Palmer whose style of coaching I really responded to. Cadence can do a mixed road / training ground session. Each year I promise myself to book a few days ice driving with Don (I live in Switzerland so this would be useful).
If your intention is mostly road driving then I'd say do the second type first. Cadence (www.cadence.co.uk) have a very good reputation. I first did IAM, which was a good taster and then progressed on via time with John Lyon, who I don't think still teaches but whose book published last year is well worth getting. Since then I've used a few other individuals, mostly ex police instructors and each time my driving has come on in big steps.
How to handle a situation if you get into it is something you need to do off the road. My only recommendation would be for Don Palmer whose style of coaching I really responded to. Cadence can do a mixed road / training ground session. Each year I promise myself to book a few days ice driving with Don (I live in Switzerland so this would be useful).
I done quite a bit of driver training, but for the basics of "how to detect, correct and avoid under steer and over steer" I found a one hour session with a local council instructor in a skid car was good enough, and only cost £20.
It teaches you the basics of how not to crash, rather than how to drive well, but it's all you really need to avoid crashing an Elise.
It's all the training Mrs Muppet had before I let her drive my S1.
It teaches you the basics of how not to crash, rather than how to drive well, but it's all you really need to avoid crashing an Elise.
It's all the training Mrs Muppet had before I let her drive my S1.
The best training I ever got for car control was a physcological one,I was a road traffic accident specialist for the Fire Service,based at a very busy Fire Station.
The area that we covered was sadly very heavy on road accidents,I guess I saw a little too often the faults of overs and it's consequences.
The area that we covered was sadly very heavy on road accidents,I guess I saw a little too often the faults of overs and it's consequences.
chandrew said:
I think there are two sides to this on the road. The first is how to deal with a situation when it happens. The second, and probably the most important one is how to predict and avoid these situations in the first place.
If your intention is mostly road driving then I'd say do the second type first. Cadence (www.cadence.co.uk) have a very good reputation. I first did IAM, which was a good taster and then progressed on via time with John Lyon, who I don't think still teaches but whose book published last year is well worth getting. Since then I've used a few other individuals, mostly ex police instructors and each time my driving has come on in big steps.
How to handle a situation if you get into it is something you need to do off the road. My only recommendation would be for Don Palmer whose style of coaching I really responded to. Cadence can do a mixed road / training ground session. Each year I promise myself to book a few days ice driving with Don (I live in Switzerland so this would be useful).
I totally agree, and I'd add that I think the ultimate is to have both these skills, but start with the one that's directly relevant to what you want to do). In my humble opinion, it can be a huge help in avoiding the limit if you know where it is and what affects it, otherwise you're dodging a ghost you just don't understand (and yes, I have just criticised police driver training, too right I have!!!).If your intention is mostly road driving then I'd say do the second type first. Cadence (www.cadence.co.uk) have a very good reputation. I first did IAM, which was a good taster and then progressed on via time with John Lyon, who I don't think still teaches but whose book published last year is well worth getting. Since then I've used a few other individuals, mostly ex police instructors and each time my driving has come on in big steps.
How to handle a situation if you get into it is something you need to do off the road. My only recommendation would be for Don Palmer whose style of coaching I really responded to. Cadence can do a mixed road / training ground session. Each year I promise myself to book a few days ice driving with Don (I live in Switzerland so this would be useful).
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