S2 Elise Understeer
Discussion
The 135R had wider front OZ wheels (195/50R16) so those particular wheels would be an excellent upgrade. Alternatively, check the SELOC Techwiki for other options
http://wiki.seloc.org/a/S2_Wheel_Options
http://wiki.seloc.org/a/S2_Wheel_Options
petersch said:
Hi, sorry if this is a dumb question but i had an S1 elise and now have an S2 which seems to understeer, i assume if i fit wider tyres to the front (current ones are 175 i think) this will help?, also do i need wider front rims to do this?, any ideas on best tyre sizing.
that's some of it (and yes std rimms can't support 195 tyres)other issue is the way the cars were setup from new, too many people had revered S1's into hedges, so Lotus were keen dial out the ability to do this, and dialled in understeer to achieve this.
what I am saying is that whilst a change of wheels and tyres will help, it's not the whole solution, and if it was me, I would re-set the geometry first (and I mean more than just the static tracking settings)
kambites said:
Yes you can fit wider tyres, but you can achieve something very similar by playing with the geometry.
IIRC 185s are OK on the standard rims, 195s are a bit wide for them but some people still do it.
does not make it right though, and even if you ignore the technical reasons for not mounting 195's on narrow rimms, they are really not going to work for you (in respect of handling/understeer)IIRC 185s are OK on the standard rims, 195s are a bit wide for them but some people still do it.
Thorburn said:
Scuffers said:
that's some of it (and yes std rimms can't support 195 tyres)
Always been confused by this. The S1 AWI's are the same width as the standard S2 wheels (5.5J) and yet can take 195 width tyres - what prevents them from being fitted to the S2 wheels?Dr Bunsen said:
I always thought my S2 suffered from understeer - until i did a driver training day with Don Palmer and realised it was down to the way i was driving it! Amazing the difference it made
Being able to drive round a characteristic does not mean it does not exist.As driver, i would rather not have the problem to start with.
petersch said:
Ok guys thanks for the good advise, so next question, does anyone have details of better settings for geometry / alignment etc?
Have a look here: http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Geo_SetupsThe most obvious difference with the "sportier" models is that they run much more front camber.
boy there's some tosh in that!
Anyway, big problem is that whilst anybody can gibe you some settings, your issue will be who are you going to get to implement them?
99% of places really DO NOT HAVE A CLUE - very much a case of all the gear-no idea most of the time.
quick/dirty solution is just to pull out *all* the front camber shimms (yes, I do mean all), and get a tracking place to set the front ~0.5mm (or ~0.1 degree) toe out total.
this is not a universal solution, but will get you in the right direction.
Longer term, new wheels/tyres and a proper setup will make a huge difference, it's not so much about spending money as getting the right person to spend some time on it.
Anyway, big problem is that whilst anybody can gibe you some settings, your issue will be who are you going to get to implement them?
99% of places really DO NOT HAVE A CLUE - very much a case of all the gear-no idea most of the time.
quick/dirty solution is just to pull out *all* the front camber shimms (yes, I do mean all), and get a tracking place to set the front ~0.5mm (or ~0.1 degree) toe out total.
this is not a universal solution, but will get you in the right direction.
Longer term, new wheels/tyres and a proper setup will make a huge difference, it's not so much about spending money as getting the right person to spend some time on it.
Scuffers said:
Dr Bunsen said:
I always thought my S2 suffered from understeer - until i did a driver training day with Don Palmer and realised it was down to the way i was driving it! Amazing the difference it made
Being able to drive round a characteristic does not mean it does not exist.As driver, i would rather not have the problem to start with.
I looked at it this way. On the road, I'm not going anywhere near quickly enough for the inherent understeer to be an issue.
The only time it's irritating is on the track, and I don't do that very often. When I do, it's usually amusing to try to deal with it.
(If I tracked it regularly, or cared about lap times I'd do something about it).
That's pretty much how I look at it. I wouldn't say no to a bit more front-end grip, but I'm not so worried about it that I'm going to spend hundreds of pounds to get rid of the under-steer and I wouldn't be willing to compromise steering feel for it (I prefer the way the S2 Elise drives to the S2 Exige for that reason).
Mr E said:
Yes, they understeer. And yes, you can drive around it.
I looked at it this way. On the road, I'm not going anywhere near quickly enough for the inherent understeer to be an issue.
The only time it's irritating is on the track, and I don't do that very often. When I do, it's usually amusing to try to deal with it.
(If I tracked it regularly, or cared about lap times I'd do something about it).
It would frustrate the hell out of me even for irregular track use.I looked at it this way. On the road, I'm not going anywhere near quickly enough for the inherent understeer to be an issue.
The only time it's irritating is on the track, and I don't do that very often. When I do, it's usually amusing to try to deal with it.
(If I tracked it regularly, or cared about lap times I'd do something about it).
fatwomble said:
Mr E said:
Yes, they understeer. And yes, you can drive around it.
I looked at it this way. On the road, I'm not going anywhere near quickly enough for the inherent understeer to be an issue.
The only time it's irritating is on the track, and I don't do that very often. When I do, it's usually amusing to try to deal with it.
(If I tracked it regularly, or cared about lap times I'd do something about it).
It would frustrate the hell out of me even for irregular track use.I looked at it this way. On the road, I'm not going anywhere near quickly enough for the inherent understeer to be an issue.
The only time it's irritating is on the track, and I don't do that very often. When I do, it's usually amusing to try to deal with it.
(If I tracked it regularly, or cared about lap times I'd do something about it).
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