A question of MPG
Discussion
I'm currently trying to decide between a 111R and a toyota engined S Elise S2 as a more economical daily runner.
my question is simply:
if i were to keep the revs out of the variable valves/second set of cams (i.e. below 6k rpm) would the 111r be the same MPG as the toyota engined S?
this is under the assumption that they are the same engine, but the 111R has variable valve timing and lift (my assumption could be completely wrong though)
Phoenixz
my question is simply:
if i were to keep the revs out of the variable valves/second set of cams (i.e. below 6k rpm) would the 111r be the same MPG as the toyota engined S?
this is under the assumption that they are the same engine, but the 111R has variable valve timing and lift (my assumption could be completely wrong though)
Phoenixz
phoenixz said:
I'm currently trying to decide between a 111R and a toyota engined S Elise S2 as a more economical daily runner.
my question is simply:
if i were to keep the revs out of the variable valves/second set of cams (i.e. below 6k rpm) would the 111r be the same MPG as the toyota engined S?
this is under the assumption that they are the same engine, but the 111R has variable valve timing and lift (my assumption could be completely wrong though)
Phoenixz
I honestly don't think you'll find there's a lot of difference in daily use. It will be far more affected by the manner of your driving than the r/s engine choice. If you have a lead right foot, use the brakes a lot, don't change up early, then the MPG wil be higher.my question is simply:
if i were to keep the revs out of the variable valves/second set of cams (i.e. below 6k rpm) would the 111r be the same MPG as the toyota engined S?
this is under the assumption that they are the same engine, but the 111R has variable valve timing and lift (my assumption could be completely wrong though)
Phoenixz
Of course, one might argue that doing these things is kinda the point of the car, but each to their own.....
phoenixz said:
this is under the assumption that they are the same engine, but the 111R has variable valve timing and lift (my assumption could be completely wrong though)
The two engines are quite different I believe, despite a similar capacity - the 1ZZ-FE in the Elise S has a longer stroke (and therefore a narrower bore) and so produces a bit more torque at lower revs, but lacks the 2ZZ-GE's (111R) ability to reach high revs.Bit of information on them in here: http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Toyota_engines#2ZZ-GE
The two cars also both have a different gearbox - the 6-speed C64 in the 111R while the S has the 5-speed C56 box. Despite having fewer ratios the C56 actually gives slightly lower cruising revs as 5th gear is longer than 6th in the C64 - the Elise S will do 70mph at about 3350rpm vs. 3500rpm for the 111R.
schrodinger said:
I honestly don't think you'll find there's a lot of difference in daily use. It will be far more affected by the manner of your driving than the r/s engine choice. If you have a lead right foot, use the brakes a lot, don't change up early, then the MPG will be higher.
Lower!hmm, i currently have the 2ZZ engine in my t-sport corolla, but it has a supercharger to compensate for the lack of torque/response in the lower range (all factory standard)
i tend to find that although i try to stay below 6k rpm i still use alot of fuel due to over exhuberant driving. the only time i use the "vtech" is when i am overtaking.
realistically i need to try them both and see which one i prefer, but i doubt a dealer will be willing to give me a test drive of both in the same day
the reason i am considering the 111R even though my main focus is mpg is purely because i would like the power there when i want it. i was hoping that it would be similar mpg to the S as long as i stayed below 6k rpm
i tend to find that although i try to stay below 6k rpm i still use alot of fuel due to over exhuberant driving. the only time i use the "vtech" is when i am overtaking.
realistically i need to try them both and see which one i prefer, but i doubt a dealer will be willing to give me a test drive of both in the same day
the reason i am considering the 111R even though my main focus is mpg is purely because i would like the power there when i want it. i was hoping that it would be similar mpg to the S as long as i stayed below 6k rpm
I would agree with above - when I had a 111R it seemed to be fairly consistent mpg no matter how it was driven.
A k series car or the current 1.6 Elises would both appear to be better options for better mpg, on the other hand you don't buy a sports car for economy just enjoy it for what it is. Its a bonus that for the performance available there is very little out there that will be as economical.
A k series car or the current 1.6 Elises would both appear to be better options for better mpg, on the other hand you don't buy a sports car for economy just enjoy it for what it is. Its a bonus that for the performance available there is very little out there that will be as economical.
J2LOT said:
A k series car or the current 1.6 Elises would both appear to be better options for better mpg, on the other hand you don't buy a sports car for economy just enjoy it for what it is. Its a bonus that for the performance available there is very little out there that will be as economical.
The K-series cars are worth considering if economy is a concern - a late 2004 or 2005 111S would be a very nice car, I've heard of people seeing 40mpg+ out of them on the motorway and cheaper to tax than the Toyota cars.SeanyD said:
schrodinger said:
I honestly don't think you'll find there's a lot of difference in daily use. It will be far more affected by the manner of your driving than the r/s engine choice. If you have a lead right foot, use the brakes a lot, don't change up early, then the MPG will be higher.
Lower!
otolith said:
How it's driven seems to make very little difference to my 111R. It does about 30 miles to the gallon.
And it's a similar story with my 'S' - runs around 34 MPG on the occasions I've bothered to work it out. Little higher when 'Domestic Management' is in the passenger seat 
Thorburn said:
J2LOT said:
A k series car or the current 1.6 Elises would both appear to be better options for better mpg, on the other hand you don't buy a sports car for economy just enjoy it for what it is. Its a bonus that for the performance available there is very little out there that will be as economical.
The K-series cars are worth considering if economy is a concern - a late 2004 or 2005 111S would be a very nice car, I've heard of people seeing 40mpg+ out of them on the motorway and cheaper to tax than the Toyota cars.The Toyota engines are all considerably less economical, in my experience.
Edited by kambites on Monday 19th November 13:17
langy said:
If you want an economical daily runner, buy a small tdi car.
i have a randy lover for the winter and i hate driving it. it's the most boring thing in the world to drive.i am looking for an economical, fun car to drive daily that is a peg down from my weekend car, but still eye catching and won't mind a good thrashing every now and again on the perfect Scottish roads on my doorstep
the Elise ticks all those boxes neatly. thanks all for the information, it seems that the S will be the most likely candidate
i don't mean to start anything, but i'm not interested in 111S due to known faults with the rover engines. i also know a number of owners that have spent a large amount on either repairing their 111s engine or replacing it altogether.
in the end i would rather spend a couple of grand more for the S
in the end i would rather spend a couple of grand more for the S
As an R owner just have to say that I find running costs and consumption for the performance more than reasonable. Light footed most of the time I get around 34 mpg. Even if I start to 'play' it rarely drops below 30. This being said, high speed runs when the speed goes past the 120 mph drops it down to around the 25 mark. Either way the Toyota route was the one I felt most comfortable with for various reasons and up until now I'm more than satisfied with my choice. Originally wanted an S for similar reasons to the OP, but having taken the R for a test drive, it made such an impression that I was forced to change my mind. Ultimately the difference in consumption between the two models is minimal. As such the consumption factor dropped out of my selection criteria at a very early stage. Buying the right car at the right price will save you far more than the 3-4 mpg you might gain by choosing the S. The S will undoubtedly be the less expensive of the two in all areas. However you may just feel that you haven't quite bought what you really want. Have fun whatever your choice. For me it was and still is the car of my dreams. A once only decision. Didn't want to have that 'If only' feeling as a result which I felt was the risk if I'd plumped for the S. Either way they are magnificent.
phoenixz said:
i don't mean to start anything, but i'm not interested in 111S due to known faults with the rover engines. i also know a number of owners that have spent a large amount on either repairing their 111s engine or replacing it altogether.
in the end i would rather spend a couple of grand more for the S
I know of far more Toyota lumps that have gone bang in a big way than Rover ones. in the end i would rather spend a couple of grand more for the S
I can understand wanting reliability, but don't ever believe that a Toyota powered car will work out cheaper to run.
kambites said:
Thorburn said:
J2LOT said:
A k series car or the current 1.6 Elises would both appear to be better options for better mpg, on the other hand you don't buy a sports car for economy just enjoy it for what it is. Its a bonus that for the performance available there is very little out there that will be as economical.
The K-series cars are worth considering if economy is a concern - a late 2004 or 2005 111S would be a very nice car, I've heard of people seeing 40mpg+ out of them on the motorway and cheaper to tax than the Toyota cars.The Toyota engines are all considerably less economical, in my experience.
Edited by kambites on Monday 19th November 13:17
The S would do 250 miles to a tank and the K does no more than 200.
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