2ZZ: Oil starvation?
Discussion
Is the 2ZZ-FE engine known for oil starvation? Mine has destroyed the top end due to oil not going to where it is needed. It was not low on oil, it hasn't been tracked (lightly thrashed at times though) and just had all fluids replaced about 3 months ago.
On a side note. A mate of mine said he would buy the engine off me to see if he can fit into his Elise S. Does it fit?
On a side note. A mate of mine said he would buy the engine off me to see if he can fit into his Elise S. Does it fit?
the ronin said:
If you are only trashing it on the street and you have an oiling starvation issue put some dam oil in it. They don't fill themself.
Well duh! It has plenty of oil in it. Not too much but just perfect yet its managed to screw/chew/destroy itself due to oil starvation or at least thats what the garage are telling me.Sexual Chocolate said:
the ronin said:
If you are only trashing it on the street and you have an oiling starvation issue put some dam oil in it. They don't fill themself.
Well duh! It has plenty of oil in it. Not too much but just perfect yet its managed to screw/chew/destroy itself due to oil starvation or at least thats what the garage are telling me.I'm really confused on this topic.
You read the comments on the forums and people say a baffled sump is essential, whilst others say it's not.
I have an Elise R on AD08 tyres and spoke to one of the guys at Lotus Motorsport. He said that he was unaware of any oil starvation issues on the elise and said that I should be fine, especially if not running semi slicks
You read the comments on the forums and people say a baffled sump is essential, whilst others say it's not.
I have an Elise R on AD08 tyres and spoke to one of the guys at Lotus Motorsport. He said that he was unaware of any oil starvation issues on the elise and said that I should be fine, especially if not running semi slicks
Sexual Chocolate said:
So am I. I have an engine that has a destroyed top end and someone mentioned an acusump. Bit late for that I reckon.
You asked if 2zz was known for having oil starvation problems.Yes, they are so well known that Lotus fit protection against oil starvation by fitting an acusump to the sportier models.
It's too late for that now for you.
Did you think someone suggested an acusump would be a good cure for a Fooked Engine ?
Ex77
In my opinion, if you had enough oil in, then Ronin is more than likely correct, ie lobe wear. You would have to be hanging some G's on motorway slip roads to starve your top end of oil. Lotus only fit the acusump to the top model Exige cup models, which are built for competition and can achieve high G on track with a good driver. I have read a few stories of engines going due to oil starvation but very rarely.
Are we in 'urban legend' territory here concerning this, or is it really a serious issue.
I spoke to a guy over here in France who first alerted me to the fact that a trackday without any mods could be expensive due exactly to this problem. Subsequently, I'm sought of thinking that I'll never do the trackday thing because I couldn't afford the resulting engine failure. Often pondered about a couple of hours on my local track but this sort of thing just makes me wonder.
I spoke to a guy over here in France who first alerted me to the fact that a trackday without any mods could be expensive due exactly to this problem. Subsequently, I'm sought of thinking that I'll never do the trackday thing because I couldn't afford the resulting engine failure. Often pondered about a couple of hours on my local track but this sort of thing just makes me wonder.
It is a difficult one. I have done around 10 trackdays in my Elise and never had a problem, yet you hear these stories about "if you track a 111r or exige n/a, you need to fit a baffled sump".
I keep going onto the various lotus websites debating whether to buy one or not, as it's quite a bit for cash for something you may not need. I can understand if you run semi slicks that it may be more of a necessity, however on standard road tyres, I'm not so sure
I keep going onto the various lotus websites debating whether to buy one or not, as it's quite a bit for cash for something you may not need. I can understand if you run semi slicks that it may be more of a necessity, however on standard road tyres, I'm not so sure
mikeulster500 said:
It is a difficult one. I have done around 10 trackdays in my Elise and never had a problem, yet you hear these stories about "if you track a 111r or exige n/a, you need to fit a baffled sump".
this kind of depends on how you drive...it's perfectly possible to push a std car into oil starvation on track, however, 90% of drivers will never manage this.
back to the OP's post, I would suggest it's practically impossible on the road, and the far more likely possibilities are:
1) short of oil
2) broken oil pump due to over-rev
I'd agree with Suffers on point 1. I blew my engine up by driving on the road with the oil level too low. I didn't realise it was low but I do now know what the phrase 'engine sounds like a bag of spanner' means!
I have a baffled sump now but most people don't. If you keep the oil topped up you shouldn't have a problem. You'll always hear the odd story about this and that causing issues but as a general rule engine failures are rare and mostly due to 'operator error' (speaking as one here!)
I have a baffled sump now but most people don't. If you keep the oil topped up you shouldn't have a problem. You'll always hear the odd story about this and that causing issues but as a general rule engine failures are rare and mostly due to 'operator error' (speaking as one here!)
FWIW I had a long chat with an engineer from Lotus Sport about just this subject at the factory 60th anniversary. What he said was that on an Elise with normal tyres I would not have the oil starvation issue simply because it could not corner fast enough to cause enough of a surge away from the pick up pipe. An Exige with sticky tyres is a different issue which is why they fitted accusump. They did not fit baffled sumps because that would affect the guarantee they in turn got from Toyota.
The issue is a combination of two things. The obvious one is the surge away from the pick up pipe under G force. I cannot remember which bend direction is the problem. The second contributor is the return of oil to the sump. The engine block was originally designed for a smaller lower revving engine and the increased revs pumps a lot more oil up to the top of the engine which cannot get back down fast enough through the small internal oil ways. For this reason some of the early engines that Lotus Sport built for racing had external oil return pipes.
I have used my 111R on track without any problems
The issue is a combination of two things. The obvious one is the surge away from the pick up pipe under G force. I cannot remember which bend direction is the problem. The second contributor is the return of oil to the sump. The engine block was originally designed for a smaller lower revving engine and the increased revs pumps a lot more oil up to the top of the engine which cannot get back down fast enough through the small internal oil ways. For this reason some of the early engines that Lotus Sport built for racing had external oil return pipes.
I have used my 111R on track without any problems
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