A few Europa S questions
Discussion
Finally had a look at one today, and unfortunately not the 225 version - not entirely convinced at the moment, but it is quite different to the sports cars I have driven before. Liked the steering, liked the looks - more comfortable than I expected. Looked in good shape for a 5 year old handbuilt car really.
It did feel like it could do with a bit more poke though, albeit tricky to get the hang of it on a short test ride.
I'm still not entirely clear as to what it might cost to get to the equivalent of the factory upgrade - are there other options than Thorney's £650 stage 1 pack?
Also, there was surface rust on engine mounts and also what appeared to be some specks on the roll cage support you can see through the side window. Normal for a 2007 car and presumably nothing to be concerned about?
Finally, although I found it generally comfortable inside, the bottom seat bolsters were digging in to my "side" a bit - not sure how much it would become a problem on a long trip - any owners want to own up to being built for comfort and advise if they just put up with it?
It did feel like it could do with a bit more poke though, albeit tricky to get the hang of it on a short test ride.
I'm still not entirely clear as to what it might cost to get to the equivalent of the factory upgrade - are there other options than Thorney's £650 stage 1 pack?
Also, there was surface rust on engine mounts and also what appeared to be some specks on the roll cage support you can see through the side window. Normal for a 2007 car and presumably nothing to be concerned about?
Finally, although I found it generally comfortable inside, the bottom seat bolsters were digging in to my "side" a bit - not sure how much it would become a problem on a long trip - any owners want to own up to being built for comfort and advise if they just put up with it?
I'm contemplating Europa ownership too and looked into upgrading a non-225 so as to decide whether to rule them out or not.
Here's a lotus dealer quote from a couple of months ago for an official upgrade (including doing the brake discs) and including labour and VAT:
Renew all brake disc`s with cross drilled ... approx £985.96inc vat
Renew sparkplugs ... approx £109.70inc vat
Renew upgraded ECU ... approx £904.75inc vat
DeRoure have a list price for the ECU (ex vat I presume) of 660. An owner said to me it's really easy to swap ECUs.
Even tho' the Thorney upgrade is listed on the website I'm not sure if they still do it, but I could be wrong!
I think Courtenay Motorspot might be able to do something but I haven't enquired further about that yet (they're superchips dealers and I know there is a superchip remap - haven't read anything about what it's like though).
Hopefully some Europa owners can wade in with more expert knowledge
Here's a lotus dealer quote from a couple of months ago for an official upgrade (including doing the brake discs) and including labour and VAT:
Renew all brake disc`s with cross drilled ... approx £985.96inc vat
Renew sparkplugs ... approx £109.70inc vat
Renew upgraded ECU ... approx £904.75inc vat
DeRoure have a list price for the ECU (ex vat I presume) of 660. An owner said to me it's really easy to swap ECUs.
Even tho' the Thorney upgrade is listed on the website I'm not sure if they still do it, but I could be wrong!
I think Courtenay Motorspot might be able to do something but I haven't enquired further about that yet (they're superchips dealers and I know there is a superchip remap - haven't read anything about what it's like though).
Hopefully some Europa owners can wade in with more expert knowledge
My Europa as got specs of rust as well, its only surface. Bolts and brackets are mostly steel so are going to show rust.
One of best upgrades is to fit the full Milltek sports exhaust, makes the car sound much better and more responsive.
I find the Probax seats really comfy, even after a few hours drive.
The dealer prices for the upgrades are very expensive (no surprise):-
Sparkplugs NGK Iridium are around £35 and only take a few minutes to fit yourself
On the brakes, change Brake Pads to better performance grade e.g. Mintex 1144. I replaced the brake disks due to corrosion, lasted 5 years. Fitted Pagid OEM disks, £96 for all 4 (front and rear the same)
The ECU is the problem due to being part Vauxhall and part Lotus, so can't do the VX220 Turbo route. I don't think the aftermarket tuners (Thorney or Courtenay) do remaps now. The Lotus ECU used to be £500 so its gone up a lot. I don't think a Lotus dealer can update the ECU it needs to go to Lotus.
I've had my Europa since 2008 and its a keeper for me. It's a rare car on the roads.
One of best upgrades is to fit the full Milltek sports exhaust, makes the car sound much better and more responsive.
I find the Probax seats really comfy, even after a few hours drive.
The dealer prices for the upgrades are very expensive (no surprise):-
Sparkplugs NGK Iridium are around £35 and only take a few minutes to fit yourself
On the brakes, change Brake Pads to better performance grade e.g. Mintex 1144. I replaced the brake disks due to corrosion, lasted 5 years. Fitted Pagid OEM disks, £96 for all 4 (front and rear the same)
The ECU is the problem due to being part Vauxhall and part Lotus, so can't do the VX220 Turbo route. I don't think the aftermarket tuners (Thorney or Courtenay) do remaps now. The Lotus ECU used to be £500 so its gone up a lot. I don't think a Lotus dealer can update the ECU it needs to go to Lotus.
I've had my Europa since 2008 and its a keeper for me. It's a rare car on the roads.
Thanks folks - that's useful info.
The dealer that had the car did say they did not think they would be able to do anything with the EU as it was a factory job.
Am I correct in thinking that the Lotus brake upgrade is not going to be as significant if the car is not being tracked? Track use is not something I intend to do at the moment - if I get the taste for it, then happy to upgrade brakes at that point as required.
The dealer that had the car did say they did not think they would be able to do anything with the EU as it was a factory job.
Am I correct in thinking that the Lotus brake upgrade is not going to be as significant if the car is not being tracked? Track use is not something I intend to do at the moment - if I get the taste for it, then happy to upgrade brakes at that point as required.
Had rust on mine as well (2007 model)
Couldn't see the brake upgrade being an issue, it was only to drilled and grooved discs wasn't it? If you were bothered, fit a set of EBC turbo groove discs and some Pagid pads when they need replacing.
The seats are comfortable for several hours driving IMO
Couldn't see the brake upgrade being an issue, it was only to drilled and grooved discs wasn't it? If you were bothered, fit a set of EBC turbo groove discs and some Pagid pads when they need replacing.
The seats are comfortable for several hours driving IMO
pac1uk said:
The ECU is the problem due to being part Vauxhall and part Lotus, so can't do the VX220 Turbo route. I don't think the aftermarket tuners (Thorney or Courtenay) do remaps now. The Lotus ECU used to be £500 so its gone up a lot. I don't think a Lotus dealer can update the ECU it needs to go to Lotus.
I'm pretty sure Courtenay do. As I said, Superchips have the Europa listed and Courtenay offer Superchips - also I think Junks had the one he has for sale (which was already a 225) remapped there fairly recently.I think it's possible to just buy an updated ECU (or ECM as lotus call it - I would guess that's what part A124E0055S is) - I guess if the factory can update existing ECUs that might be cheaper (if they still do it/are prepared to do it).
Swapping the standard Lotus ECU for a 225 Lotus ECU is not that easy. The ECU is coded to the cars immobiliser. The Lotus ECU is encrypted and can't be changed by a dealer.
I have got a 225 ECU and it's a paper weight.
Years back Thorney was doing an ECU remap but they had problems and stopped selling a remap.
I have got a 225 ECU and it's a paper weight.
Years back Thorney was doing an ECU remap but they had problems and stopped selling a remap.
Easiest way to tell if it is a 225 is to look carefully at the ECU and look for a small marker pen dot. If there are traces of a marker pen dot then it has been reflashed with the 225 map. Dealer sold mine to me as a standard car, but it was actually a 225. I too have a spare 225 ECU as a paperweight...
Swapped my ECU for a new 225 one only to find mine was already a 225. Engine started and ran ok on new ECU, but only does this for about 10-20 restarts before immobiliser kicks in and renders car unstartable until ECU is paired with immobiliser. This requires data from Lotus and use of Lotus Scan Tool. Fortunately this happened on mine when I dropped my car off at a dealer for a service.
Swapped my ECU for a new 225 one only to find mine was already a 225. Engine started and ran ok on new ECU, but only does this for about 10-20 restarts before immobiliser kicks in and renders car unstartable until ECU is paired with immobiliser. This requires data from Lotus and use of Lotus Scan Tool. Fortunately this happened on mine when I dropped my car off at a dealer for a service.
Edited by starlight225 on Monday 16th July 09:00
The dealer I spoke had specifically checked this, possibly with the factory, so I don't think there was much doubt. I'm not sure the car felt quick enough to have the extra horses TBH, although granted not easy to tell if you are unfamiliar with it.
I'm still unclear if the 225 ECU is something that the dealer could fit - or even the factory if they are still interested.
I'm still unclear if the 225 ECU is something that the dealer could fit - or even the factory if they are still interested.
s2kjock said:
I'm still unclear if the 225 ECU is something that the dealer could fit - or even the factory if they are still interested.
The factory don't have any records of which Europa's have had a 225 reflash. It really is just a software upgrade on the standard ECU, and can be carried out by a Dealer with the Lotus Scan tool - hence the only evidence being a marker pen dot. A dealer can also fit a replacement ECU and pair it to the immobiliser, as they paired my replacement ECU with the immobiliser, it's more whether they want to by the sound of it.starlight225 said:
I presume the car is the one at Murrays? Looks good, with sensible 4 channel ABS upgrade. Given the ABS upgrade, I'm surprised it hasn't had a 225 reflash at some stage. It might just need a good service, plugs, air filter, possibly a coil pack or MAF to restore performance?
Yep, that's the one - what is the significance of the 4 channel ABS? Over my head I am afraid!I can only find the Australian copy online, but the sales leaflet states of the standard Europa S:
"Servo Assisted, Track Tuned 4-Channel ABS Brakes" ... http://www.lotusdriversguide.com/Downloads/Brochur... ... so I assume that's just the standard Europa S brakes?
I think the SE had the same plumbing but a different module - perhaps slightly different tuning because they were 4 pot on the SE and wider front wheels?
"Servo Assisted, Track Tuned 4-Channel ABS Brakes" ... http://www.lotusdriversguide.com/Downloads/Brochur... ... so I assume that's just the standard Europa S brakes?
I think the SE had the same plumbing but a different module - perhaps slightly different tuning because they were 4 pot on the SE and wider front wheels?
rob999 said:
Give Chris at Hoffmans a call about upgrades for the Europa
Just had a chat with him - he reckons not much between the 197 and 225, and that they all vary car to car anyway.Probably best to go back to him later if and when I might want some more serious upgrades. Very helpful chap though.
Seems to be about the first question any prospective Europa owner asks "can i get more power from it?"
Bit of a pita this car,i mean so close to all that Vauxhall turbo power and torque but you just cannot get to it! Lotus seem to have the ecu locked down so well that the little boys are not able to crack it and the big boys say they are not interested as there is no market for it!
For now it does seem the only route is to swap the engine control system as per Hofmann. I really don,t think the cost of a Lotus 225 ecu is worth it,probably worth a punt at the Superchips upgrade though. I was told by a leading tuner person that that software is the same as the Lotus 225 version?
My car is now running a Vauxhall ecu and is so much smoother but if you want to swap,allow about 4 days work by someone who knows what they are doing! My 225 ecu has been with the "little boys" now for a couple of months as they reckon they can crack it......... Looks like they might sell some software if they ever get it done!
If you do want more power keep in mind the exhaust will need upgrading and the intercooler is next to useless!
Bit of a pita this car,i mean so close to all that Vauxhall turbo power and torque but you just cannot get to it! Lotus seem to have the ecu locked down so well that the little boys are not able to crack it and the big boys say they are not interested as there is no market for it!
For now it does seem the only route is to swap the engine control system as per Hofmann. I really don,t think the cost of a Lotus 225 ecu is worth it,probably worth a punt at the Superchips upgrade though. I was told by a leading tuner person that that software is the same as the Lotus 225 version?
My car is now running a Vauxhall ecu and is so much smoother but if you want to swap,allow about 4 days work by someone who knows what they are doing! My 225 ecu has been with the "little boys" now for a couple of months as they reckon they can crack it......... Looks like they might sell some software if they ever get it done!
If you do want more power keep in mind the exhaust will need upgrading and the intercooler is next to useless!
Skaffen said:
I can only find the Australian copy online, but the sales leaflet states of the standard Europa S:
"Servo Assisted, Track Tuned 4-Channel ABS Brakes" ... http://www.lotusdriversguide.com/Downloads/Brochur... ... so I assume that's just the standard Europa S brakes?
I think the SE had the same plumbing but a different module - perhaps slightly different tuning because they were 4 pot on the SE and wider front wheels?
Unfortunately, the Europa S was only fitted with the VX220 2 channel ABS ECU as standard, with the SE having the 4 channel Exige/Elise/VXR unit. This is born out in the parts catalogue, as the ABS ECU part number B116J6000F, with part numbers with a x116xxxxxx in them being carryover VX220 Turbo."Servo Assisted, Track Tuned 4-Channel ABS Brakes" ... http://www.lotusdriversguide.com/Downloads/Brochur... ... so I assume that's just the standard Europa S brakes?
I think the SE had the same plumbing but a different module - perhaps slightly different tuning because they were 4 pot on the SE and wider front wheels?
roger.daltrey said:
So is the brochure wrong and possibly in conflict with some trade descriptions act ?
Well it was an Australian brochure!!My Europa ice mode moment was slowing down for a T junction on rumble strips. Had the same issue on my old VXT and thought when I got the Europa Lotus may of fitted the 4 channel one... Anyway fitted one now and had no repeat performance on the same road, and would recommend the upgrade to anyone else
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