Am I about to do something really stupid? Elise S2.5

[scary]

Hello

I currently drive a 51 K-Series Elise which I love. I'm a girl so as well as still guffawing manically every time I accelerate I also love the way the dials are blue at night and the pointy to the numbers bits are pink. I love all the suede (it's a race tech) and I love the shouty noise it makes when I go fast (as if there's a really powerful bike behind me).

I have been very lucky, it doesn't leak, it's been eminently reliable and the head gasket didn't go until I got to the C service anyway.

However, it's on the brink of 'old' and there's a back ball joint at teh back which makes a noise like a duck in hot weather and I'm thinking it might be time to change it before it gets unreliable - and before um... anything happens to Lotus.

So I'm thinking about trading it for a 1.6. I would love to get an R because 0 - 60 in 4 sounds peachy but I don't have the cash so it seems I'll have to settle for 6.

Bear in mind I'm very happy with a bog standard 1.8 and 0-60 in 5.9. I'm a little worried about the clutch on the new one, it's shorter travel and feels stiffer, I like a light clutch that requires a big stamp of the foot. I don't really use it on motorways much - the odd trip from Suffolk to Sussex to check up on my folks and possibly some book signings in future but otherwise that's about it.

So anyway, here I am on the brink of trading in and ordering a 1.6 because it's cheaper and greener even without the kinky suede interior.

Anyone have any thoughts? Am I about to do something very, very silly?

Cheers

MTM

[NJS25]

I also have an early S2. I love the looks, ride, performance and simplicity of these cars.

I intend to keep mine for as long as I can get into it and still use it, hopefully for another 40 years or so.

While the concept of a new car is always appealing when it comes to the final decision I always find myself asking what am I paying for. I fear that in this case I wouldn't be able to justify the change. If you were looking at a V6 Exige or a Type 25 SC then I'd probably say go for it.

These cars are simple, there really isn't that much to go wrong. I'd be tempted to work out the cost to change and spend the money on your car to give it a new lease of life. It really is simply a case factoring in the renewal of suspension parts into the running costs every few years (mines due a change as well!).

While the 1.6 has similar performance and is no doubt a very nice car, the combination of the originals lightness and simplicity, coupled with the inherent improvements in design make early S2s the pick of the standard engined cars IMHO.

Personally, I'd keep it, care for it and continue loving it.

Enjoy.

Regards, Neil

[simpo555]

I'd be temped to part ex but not for new. Cars always lose money but the biggest hit is when you buy new. For me go for a 2009 or later if your budget allows, any model. There are a number of new models (1.6) with few miles at prices far more reasonable. As always, its horses for courses. If your budget fits then why not. I think there comes a time when repairing or uplifting an older car becomes less 'cost efficient'. Only you can tell.

Nice to know that not all Lotus owners are fellas, shame I never seem to bump into the female ones. My ex is so anti Lotus it would be nice to meet somebody 'like minded'. Enjoy your search. Push hard for the price because at the moment buyers are a rarity, take advantage.

[scary]

Hmm... there's some food for thought. It's completely pathetic but the suede thing really matters... I also really like the shark's egg sack shape of the roof on mine (as opposed to the Britney crop top look). On the other hand, I love what they've done to the front of the new one, that wire doesn't wear well though, you should see the stuff on the back of mine.

However, what will probably get me in the end is the airbag. Which has only just occurred to me to be honest.

My early S2 doesn't have one, the 1.6 does and so far, I haven't been able to find out if you can turn it off - and since I'd forgotten it completely, I'll have to ask the salesman tomorrow (doh). As well one careful (phnark yeh-right, I don't think there's much coke in the engine) lady owner my current S2 has an omnipresent 3 year old. So, if there's an issue about chauffering him about I'll have not choice but to stick with the old one.

I do like the idea of a second hand option though... especially if I can get more bang for my buck. Hmm... decisions, decisions...

Cheers

MTM

Edited by scary on Tuesday 5th June 14:38

[Thorburn]

Driven the Elise 1.6 a couple times now and I really like it. Have done a couple write-ups on it:
On the road: http://www.seloc.org/articles/driven/elise-1-6/
On track: http://www.seloc.org/articles/events/seloc-does-th...

Prefer it to the 111R on the road personally, although some people have had their 111R's tweaked to lower the cam change point and improve the mid-range which looks a nice change to make. Only real criticism I'd have is 3rd gear is a bit too long, but I only really noticed it out on track.

[scary]

Thorburn said:

Driven the Elise 1.6 a couple times now and I really like it. Have done a couple write-ups on it:
On the road: http://www.seloc.org/articles/driven/elise-1-6/
On track: http://www.seloc.org/articles/events/seloc-does-th...

That's a useful article. Thank you very much. I'm embarrassed to ask this girlie question but do you know what colour that demonstrator was?

Cheers

MTM

[Thorburn]

scary said:

That's a useful article. Thank you very much. I'm embarrassed to ask this girlie question but do you know what colour that demonstrator was?

Cheers

MTM

I can't remember now to be honest. Might have been Storm Titanium but I'm useless at identifying different shades of grey by name.

[pthelazyjourno]

Do you like the new car better?

Trading in because things might be about to cost money is a bit daft, as the depreciation and trade-in price will often end up costing you more anyway.

Unless it's on the verge of several massive bills adding up to £10k+, obviously!!

Ball joint costs £60+ VAT to repair. £25 if you can do it yourself or get a friend to do it for your. It's not expensive.

So yeah. Decide which car you like best, and go from there.

[scary]

pthelazyjourno said:

Do you like the new car better?

Yes and no. Blimey oh reilly! I sound so decisive don't I?

OK, so basically I've only realised very recently that I could afford a new one so until a month ago the idea hadn't really been on the radar. I knew I wanted to get one before the proposed 2014 bodyshape came in or alternatively (when I'm the next JK) I would love an Evora (mwa ha ha ha haargh) but that really is a pipe dream.

So, I like what they've done to the looks, it's even prettier than mine at the front and the back, though different - I like the twin exhausts on mine - is still cool. And when I bought mine I wished the exhaust was in the middle like an S1. I like the rev-the-crap-out-of-an-even-smaller-engine Lotus ethos. I like that it will be cheaper to run, tax and put petrol in. I like the idea of changing 1. While my old car is still reliable (my husband's is getting to the point where it isn't and it's got me thinking) and 2. while Lotus are still around.

I guess my only reservations are these:

1. Will it hold it's value as well as my early S2? I'm thinking that may be a how long is a piece of string question. I'm not adding an options pack but then I don't really need to... in the day I bought mine, then, unless you bought an options pack all it came with was a seat, windows and a roof.

2. My current car is the closest thing to a car engineered expressly for me in existence . If I'd told them what to build I couldn't have been happier with the results. Lotus have changed some of the things I like; the names of all the paints, for example (so I don't know how to reorder a gunmetal one) and there's no option for suede seats and doors so I have to go fabric (leather is hot in the summer and cold and slippery in the winter). So although these are just icing on the cake, there is a worry that I might not manage the icing so perfectly the second time!

3. My car is also, clearly, about as reliable and non-lemonish a car - let alone a Lotus - as I could have bought. So there's also a confidence issue, will lightning strike twice?

Non worries really. My big worry was the does it have anough grunt one... which, I think, we have answered! YES.

It's a lot of money even if we're just talking about different degrees of perfection. I'm not too worried about having to gear down to accelerate on the motorway, I do that already... because I am a bit of a nutter. Indeed, judging by the number of times I've been stopped it would probably be in my interest if it took a little longer to get from 60 to 100...

Cheers


MTM

[anonymous-user]

I bought a new 1.6 elise in March and don't regret it one bit. Now it has a couple of thousand miles on it it has loosened up and flows beautifully down the road.

A lot of brand new, unregistered cars seem to have sold recently - perhaps people are beginning to think like I did that they may not be around forever. I bought new because I got a great deal and it wasn't much more than a 1 - 2 year old MY11 car. Depreciation is only an issue if you sell and mine is a keeper. It will never depreciate to zero though and the low running costs of the 1.6 are as low as it gets and can only help with resale these days.

It looks like you've sussed that the performance is perfectly adequate with the 1.6 too.

Whereabouts in Suffolk are you? Happy for you to have a look over mine.

[anonymous-user]

The car in Thorburn's review looks a lot like carbon grey to me (same as mine).

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 5th June 19:06

[scary]

milesr3 said:

I bought a new 1.6 elise in March and don't regret it one bit. Now it has a couple of thousand miles on it it has loosened up and flows beautifully down the road.

Whereabouts in Suffolk are you? Happy for you to have a look over mine.

That looks like Gunmetal. Arse. It's £1,200 instead of £600. Bum! Bum! Bum! Storm Titanium is the same, I think, as Titanium on a S1.

I'm in Bury St Edmunds down behind the sugar factory but I reckon I can save you a trip, the photo looks pretty conclusive. I'd say it's the same colour as mine. It looks great. Thank you for your reassurance, I am feeling a bit more relaxed about this. I read the evo article which kind of sold it to me. Then I read some info in here and elsewhere which said overbodied and thought Aaargh. I just need to get a titanium coloured swatch and put it against mine to check the difference and then, so long sa it's not too significant, I'm done.

Cheers

MTM

Edited by scary on Tuesday 5th June 20:49

[Stephanie Plum]

Don't do it - as in buy a 1.6. Gutless, pointless derivative, that will lose money over the years imho. Ask any Lotus dealer how many they've sold - hardly any will be the answer if they're honest. And don't go thinking the rarity value will make them hold their value either. It will go down as the model Lotus should never have made.

If you have to change, look for the Elise S 134hp - still the 1.8. A much nicer car all round if you ask me.

/I'm a girl too, and have an S2 111S with 88k on the clock and I love it to bits - more than I love my 211 if truth be told, and if I had to sell one of them it would the 211 all the way. The repair costs on your current car won't be that bad ime.

[anonymous-user]

scary said:

That looks like Gunmetal. Arse. It's £1,200 instead of £600. Bum! Bum! Bum!

Carbon grey was a £1100 'lifestyle' paint in the 2011 brochure, but is a £600 option now I think if you look at the configurator on Lotus' site.

[MattGTA]

Stephanie Plum said:

Don't do it - as in buy a 1.6. Gutless, pointless derivative, that will lose money over the years imho. Ask any Lotus dealer how many they've sold - hardly any will be the answer if they're honest. And don't go thinking the rarity value will make them hold their value either. It will go down as the model Lotus should never have made.

If you have to change, look for the Elise S 134hp - still the 1.8. A much nicer car all round if you ask me.

/I'm a girl too, and have an S2 111S with 88k on the clock and I love it to bits - more than I love my 211 if truth be told, and if I had to sell one of them it would the 211 all the way. The repair costs on your current car won't be that bad ime.

I don't agree - the 1.6 is the most relevant car lotus have made in years - affordable, green (yes I said it) and usable every day.

[Gabber]

[quote=Stephanie Plum]Don't do it - as in buy a 1.6. Gutless, pointless derivative, that will lose money over the years imho. Ask any Lotus dealer how many they've sold - hardly any will be the answer if they're honest. And don't go thinking the rarity value will make them hold their value either. It will go down as the model Lotus should never have made.

I do not agree I'm also looking for a 1.6. Reasons because of the fuel economy,it looks better ( personal),6 speed gear box, warranty. I do not think that the value will be less good then 1.8's because when people want to buy a not too old Elise in the future they have no other choice than a 1.6 ( except for the new SC ).
I would go for a Club Racer because of the good looks and I see that you get 3 years free service now. Last but not least lotus needs some sales so If you can affort one go for it !! Good luck.

[MattGTA]

Airbag can't be switched off officially (no option to do so with a key) and the main dealers won't do it. That said, it can be done:

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f101/removing-pass...

Here's the annoying arse covering health and safety bit from the manual:

"...children should not be carried in the Elise / Exige unless they are large enough to be able to properly use the standard seatbelt without any child seat or booster seat"

That said, my 5 and 6 yr olds are perfectly well positioned for the airbag and seatbelt when they're on boosters and are sufficiently far back for it to work properly if the bag does ever go off. (just my view btw, have a feeling I'm going to get flamed!)

[pthelazyjourno]

Gabber said:

I do not agree I'm also looking for a 1.6. Reasons because of the fuel economy,it looks better ( personal),6 speed gear box, warranty. I do not think that the value will be less good then 1.8's because when people want to buy a not too old Elise in the future they have no other choice than a 1.6 ( except for the new SC ).
I would go for a Club Racer because of the good looks and I see that you get 3 years free service now. Last but not least lotus needs some sales so If you can affort one go for it !! Good luck.

You can get a 2011 190bhp facelifted R, so it doesn't look better - it's the same. Not sure if they did a facelifted version of the old 1.8 S before the new engines came along or not.

I do like the updated looks though, you're right in that it does look a lot nicer than the previous shape. Cleaner, more modern. Classy.

I'd imagine the R is pretty rare too

[Thorburn]

pthelazyjourno said:

You can get a 2011 190bhp facelifted R, so it doesn't look better - it's the same. Not sure if they did a facelifted version of the old 1.8 S before the new engines came along or not.

The 1.6 replaced the 1.8 1ZZ engine, so you don't get any in that shape. The 2ZZ based R and SC were made until the lack of Euro V compliance killed them off.

Only seen maybe 4 or 5 of the R and SC cars in the facelift body-shape.

[anonymous-user]

Stephanie Plum said:

Don't do it - as in buy a 1.6. Gutless...

If you have to change, look for the Elise S 134hp - still the 1.8. A much nicer car all round if you ask me.

What is it about the Elise S' 134bhp that makes it less gutless than the 1.6's 134bhp? The 1.8 has 9lbft more torque, but this is hardly night and day is it? The only real difference I can see is that 3rd and 4th gears are 6% taller in the 1.6 so will feel different.