Perfect amount of power

Perfect amount of power

Author
Discussion

GR4

Original Poster:

442 posts

257 months

Wednesday 15th February 2012
quotequote all
Interesting musing from Chris Harris on the front page on how much power is 'enough' to be entertaining and regularly exploitable on the road. He concludes 163 bhp per tonne, which I was pleased to see is almost smack on a standard S1 Elise isn't it? I think he has a point that more power isn't always more fun. That's why I stopped riding sports bikes. I still wouldn't mind another 30 or 40 bhp though. Where do people think the sweet spot is in a Lotus (for road use)?

Scuffers

20,887 posts

279 months

Wednesday 15th February 2012
quotequote all
GR4 said:
Interesting musing from Chris Harris on the front page on how much power is 'enough' to be entertaining and regularly exploitable on the road. He concludes 163 bhp per tonne, which I was pleased to see is almost smack on a standard S1 Elise isn't it? I think he has a point that more power isn't always more fun. That's why I stopped riding sports bikes. I still wouldn't mind another 30 or 40 bhp though. Where do people think the sweet spot is in a Lotus (for road use)?
problem with that is define road use?

me personally, I think ~300 in an Elise is about the right place, but I am sure others will disagree...

R77C

89 posts

196 months

Wednesday 15th February 2012
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I think my Sport 160 is perfect for the roads (obviously 160hp). With the cam set up delivering all of the power above 5K RPM, as long as you keep it on song it's fast enough for the road.

I've also got an E46 M3 and on a good B road I struggle to use the car without short shifting.

cabbron

416 posts

222 months

Wednesday 15th February 2012
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Scuffers said:
problem with that is define road use?

me personally, I think ~300 in an Elise is about the right place, but I am sure others will disagree...
i agree,i think this level gives extra safety,didnt the r300 caterham always get the accolade as the most usable at 300/ton?

chieflief

162 posts

185 months

Wednesday 15th February 2012
quotequote all
GR4 said:
Interesting musing from Chris Harris on the front page on how much power is 'enough' to be entertaining and regularly exploitable on the road. He concludes 163 bhp per tonne, which I was pleased to see is almost smack on a standard S1 Elise isn't it?
Mine's at 162.98 bhp per tonne, so yeah, good one. I'm glad to hear that I made the right choice (at least according to Mr Harris)... always had the goal of owning a car that was the most fun on the road.

That said (and I know this is common), I may be itching for more power at some point, so I guess one's opinion of 'enough power' changes.

peter450

1,650 posts

238 months

Wednesday 15th February 2012
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I think 200bhp per ton is the sweet spot, which for a Elise is around 150 to 160 hp for a K and around 170hp for a yota car

the ronin

1,056 posts

216 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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740bhp per ton is perfect if it's done right.
Anyone who disagrees has never been in a 740bhp Lotus and have no idea what they are talking about...

Moospeed

547 posts

270 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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peter450 said:
I think 200bhp per ton is the sweet spot, which for a Elise is around 150 to 160 hp for a K and around 170hp for a yota car
I'd go slightly higher personally, went from a sport 160 to another S1 with much more power but with that it was slightly less fun. Just couldn't rag it along in the same way.

Problem is that power corrupts the mind into thinking you need more. My current stock 200bhp vx turbo is as fast as I need but the temptation of another (cheap) 40bhp is hard to resist. Just think how corrupt your mind must be to want 740bhp!

kambites

68,179 posts

226 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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I'd agree with the 200bhp/tonne number, maybe up to about 250 depending on the road. I've driven faster Elises and whilst they were mightily impressive, I didn't really enjoy them as much overall.

Even the slowest Elises have enough power to be fun, though.

Mr E

22,041 posts

264 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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Traditionally, always about 20% more than I actually have would be juuuust right...

The Pits

4,289 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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tricky one, the 189bhp in my car is pretty peachy and pub bragging aside is undeniably fun. However I wouldn't have an Elise with less power, so I consider it a minimum. I suppose my ideal would be around 250 naturally aspirated horses with even higher revs.

300bhp turns an Elise into a very different propostion but yes of course, a hilarious one!

Scuffers

20,887 posts

279 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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The Pits said:
tricky one, the 189bhp in my car is pretty peachy and pub bragging aside is undeniably fun. However I wouldn't have an Elise with less power, so I consider it a minimum. I suppose my ideal would be around 250 naturally aspirated horses with even higher revs.

300bhp turns an Elise into a very different propostion but yes of course, a hilarious one!
the question was BHP/Tonne....

Thorburn

2,406 posts

198 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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Moospeed said:
Problem is that power corrupts the mind into thinking you need more. My current stock 200bhp vx turbo is as fast as I need but the temptation of another (cheap) 40bhp is hard to resist. Just think how corrupt your mind must be to want 740bhp!
More power always creeps on to my mental list of upgrades when I've not driven the car for a while, then I get out and use it and decide I've got all I really need.

The Pits said:
tricky one, the 189bhp in my car is pretty peachy and pub bragging aside is undeniably fun. However I wouldn't have an Elise with less power, so I consider it a minimum. I suppose my ideal would be around 250 naturally aspirated horses with even higher revs.
When I took mine out on track for the first time last year I was surprised how little difference there was between mine and the 111R's out on track. They never really seemed to pull away until we were up past 100mph.

The Pits

4,289 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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Scuffers said:
the question was BHP/Tonne....
thread is entitled 'perfect amount of power'

congratulations you are pistonheads pedant of the day!

pthelazyjourno

1,850 posts

174 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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The Pits said:
thread is entitled 'perfect amount of power'

congratulations you are pistonheads pedant of the day!
Except he has a point?

Why wouldn't you consider an Elise with 170bhp, for instance, if it weighs 10-15 per cent less than yours?

Hence the BHP / ton thing. 170bhp S1 would easily keep up with your R, so engine preference aside, and talking purely numbers, it's back to being a pissing contest, no?

Obviously, if you bounce along on the limiter at 145mph, you may appreciate the additional 3mph that your +20bhp gets you, and if this is the case fair enough...

The Pits

4,289 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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I accept the point.

but I'd still prefer an S1 with 190bhp to an S1 with the same power to weight ratio as my current car. Naturally I'd also prefer my car to an S1 with the same bhp/ton (otherwise I have one of those instead). So it isn't merely about power/weight for me.

I think the Exige is better suited to a higher power/weight ratio than the Elise for example, especially if the rest of the car remains as standard.


kazste

5,775 posts

203 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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Clearly I'm too girly as think my elise s has enough power, I just wish it had less grip and therefore lower limits. Keep musing about sticking some Eco tyres on it.

Please don't shoot.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

279 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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The Pits said:
I think the Exige is better suited to a higher power/weight ratio than the Elise for example, especially if the rest of the car remains as standard.
OK, why?

pthelazyjourno

1,850 posts

174 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
quotequote all
The Pits said:
I accept the point.

but I'd still prefer an S1 with 190bhp to an S1 with the same power to weight ratio as my current car. Naturally I'd also prefer my car to an S1 with the same bhp/ton (otherwise I have one of those instead). So it isn't merely about power/weight for me.

I think the Exige is better suited to a higher power/weight ratio than the Elise for example, especially if the rest of the car remains as standard.
So what about, say, an S2 111S with different cams / slight mods etc - say 175bhp.

You've ruled that out by saying you wouldn't have an Elise with less power - but if it offers identical performance, then why not? Or even a milder Duratec car - again less power, but performance certainly won't be poorer than your R.

Not trolling, I'm just curious, as I'm struggling to see past the numbers on this one.

Again - taking Rover / Toyota engine preference out of the equation etc. And don't worry, I wasn't hinting that you should go out and buy an S1, I was just using it as an example.

Edited by pthelazyjourno on Thursday 16th February 19:26

The Pits

4,289 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th February 2012
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I prefer both the S2 and the toyota engine, so with an identical power/weight ratio I'd stick with what I've got.

Incidentally S1 Elise 190 k-series doesn't feel any faster my car, even if the power/weight ratio says otherwise. Was it ever really 190bhp?