Discussion
Hi all.
I currently drive an S2 111s and have enjoyed it very much. I think I'm itching to make a change now and would appreciate more power and maybe even another lotus model altogether.
My rough thoughts are:
Sell the S2 ('03 K series, good nick, what £12k?), add the extra £7k and buy into an nice SC or even an R model.
What are the basic differences in terms of power between the two please?
The other different idea is to go to a Europa which I have always been interested in. I like a soft top, but it's not critical.
Any thoughts on that please?
Thanks,
Nick
I currently drive an S2 111s and have enjoyed it very much. I think I'm itching to make a change now and would appreciate more power and maybe even another lotus model altogether.
My rough thoughts are:
Sell the S2 ('03 K series, good nick, what £12k?), add the extra £7k and buy into an nice SC or even an R model.
What are the basic differences in terms of power between the two please?
The other different idea is to go to a Europa which I have always been interested in. I like a soft top, but it's not critical.
Any thoughts on that please?
Thanks,
Nick
I haven't driven an R myself but I have a 111S and consider the R to be an equivalent (being only a bit more powerful but also a bit heavier, performance is meant to be similar), not an upgrade (do I hear laughing in the background?). An SC would certainly be quicker and newer, but what are you looking for? A newer car, or a faster car? Personally I think the only Elise I'd consider would be an SC Honda in terms of really upgrading, but I'm not bothered about 'newness' at all, which you could get second hand for an extra 7k.
I have an SC and love it. I've got quite a lot of experience of driving cars with a lot of low down torque (V8s etc - not diesels, don't worry!) and like not having to swap gears at every opportunity just to keep a car in a narrow band. The SC responds well to this style of driving. On the alpine passes here in Switzerland or out in the Black Forest I can do most short of a tight hairpin in 3rd. If I really want to go for it there is the option of dropping down to 2nd (1st on the east route up the Stelvio) but I'm not sure I get up much quicker given the lost time taken by changing gears.
Not so sure I want to be going over £20knick, I used to own a boggo powered (ie 120bhp) S1 but have driven both an S2 111S and 111R. I preferred the power delivery of the S and can remember once on a Walshy day commenting to the owner of an N/A Exige that our cars felt fairly similiar up to about 80mph (assuming you keep them both 'on cam').
The SC (I've only driven an SC Exige on track) felt punchier and was certainly quicker but didn't quite hit 'the spot' for me.
Somehow the simpler, purer versions of the Elise always seem sweeter. If I want slugs of torque then I use a Tdi. If I want a sports car that, at times requires precision trimming of throttle (I can kid myself
) then I like a nice n/a free revving engine with a progressive bhp curve and reasonably flat torque 'curve'.
Personally I can't see the need for a car to be straight line faster than a 111S or 111R (bugger all difference in real world times BTW). Most of us would only get ourselves into trouble!
The SC (I've only driven an SC Exige on track) felt punchier and was certainly quicker but didn't quite hit 'the spot' for me.
Somehow the simpler, purer versions of the Elise always seem sweeter. If I want slugs of torque then I use a Tdi. If I want a sports car that, at times requires precision trimming of throttle (I can kid myself
) then I like a nice n/a free revving engine with a progressive bhp curve and reasonably flat torque 'curve'.Personally I can't see the need for a car to be straight line faster than a 111S or 111R (bugger all difference in real world times BTW). Most of us would only get ourselves into trouble!
doggydave said:
If you can get an SC car. There is no comparison imo. I've had a S2 111s and a S2 134bhp S and they feel pedestrian compared to an SC.
Having looked at prices the SC is just a wee bit too far to go. Bare in mind all of this has to be sanctioned 
I believe I have found a very nice 111R and will look at it on Sunday.
Anyone have comments coming from a 160bhp K series to a 190bhp Toyota?
I fear I'm going to miss the flat torque curve of the K series, but I think the time is right to move into a newer car.
There isn't a huge amount of different in ultimate performance at road speeds between the 111R and 111S - something like 156bhp and 800kg vs 189bhp and 880kg. So that's 195bhp/tonne vs 215. The 111R will start to pull away at higher speeds because weight matters less.
You'll either like the cam change in the 111R or you won't. I don't.
As the 111R's production went on they changed various things. They had a brake servo from day-one but it wasn't very well set up and that was changed in some MY revision or other; then later they went to a DBW throttle and again, the initial setup wasn't great but it got fixed. So if you don't like one 111R, try another one of a different age as it might be different.
Personally, I thought the 111S was the better car, which is why I bought one.
You'll either like the cam change in the 111R or you won't. I don't.
As the 111R's production went on they changed various things. They had a brake servo from day-one but it wasn't very well set up and that was changed in some MY revision or other; then later they went to a DBW throttle and again, the initial setup wasn't great but it got fixed. So if you don't like one 111R, try another one of a different age as it might be different.
Personally, I thought the 111S was the better car, which is why I bought one.
kambites said:
There isn't a huge amount of different in ultimate performance at road speeds between the 111R and 111S - something like 156bhp and 800kg vs 189bhp and 880kg. So that's 195bhp/tonne vs 215. The 111R will start to pull away at higher speeds because weight matters less.
You'll either like the cam change in the 111R or you won't. I don't.
As the 111R's production went on they changed various things. They had a brake servo from day-one but it wasn't very well set up and that was changed in some MY revision or other; then later they went to a DBW throttle and again, the initial setup wasn't great but it got fixed. So if you don't like one 111R, try another one of a different age as it might be different.
Personally, I thought the 111S was the better car, which is why I bought one.
I'm looking at an '06 'R'.You'll either like the cam change in the 111R or you won't. I don't.
As the 111R's production went on they changed various things. They had a brake servo from day-one but it wasn't very well set up and that was changed in some MY revision or other; then later they went to a DBW throttle and again, the initial setup wasn't great but it got fixed. So if you don't like one 111R, try another one of a different age as it might be different.
Personally, I thought the 111S was the better car, which is why I bought one.
nick_j007 said:
I'm looking at an '06 'R'.
I think that'll give you the later (better) brake pedal setup and a cable throttle but I'm not certain. Someone else can probably confirm. ETA: Apparently that's the first year of DBW throttle. They have a reputation for being horrible (although I haven't driven one). Also the first year with LED breaklights, I think, which I've heard people moan about. 06 was out of my budget when I was looking so I never drove one.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 9th February 19:45
Each to their own I guess. When I was looking for an Elise last year, I tried a standard s2 (not for me) & 111r.
I needed to try a 111s before parting with my cash found THE most perfect, low mileage, pampered late model 111s and was ready to buy it, until I drove it. After the R it just didn't do it for me. Whether the R is quicker or not isn't of concern to me, but it felt quicker and quite simply put a much bigger smile on my face
I needed to try a 111s before parting with my cash found THE most perfect, low mileage, pampered late model 111s and was ready to buy it, until I drove it. After the R it just didn't do it for me. Whether the R is quicker or not isn't of concern to me, but it felt quicker and quite simply put a much bigger smile on my face
nick_j007 said:
Having looked at prices the SC is just a wee bit too far to go. Bare in mind all of this has to be sanctioned
I believe I have found a very nice 111R and will look at it on Sunday.
Anyone have comments coming from a 160bhp K series to a 190bhp Toyota?
I fear I'm going to miss the flat torque curve of the K series, but I think the time is right to move into a newer car.
I had a 53 plate 111s and went to a 07 plate R. The feel in both cars is completely different in my mind. The toyota engine feels much more modern and more like a tuned, honed engine.I believe I have found a very nice 111R and will look at it on Sunday.
Anyone have comments coming from a 160bhp K series to a 190bhp Toyota?
I fear I'm going to miss the flat torque curve of the K series, but I think the time is right to move into a newer car.
People say there is nothing in it, however I love my R so much more than the 111s, the noise, the feel and the power delivery is awesome when you hit that second cam. Haven't driven an Sc, but EVO mag rate it lower than the R, saying the engine lacks that sparkle
quote=mikeulster500]
People say there is nothing in it, however I love my R so much more than the 111s, the noise, the feel and the power delivery is awesome when you hit that second cam. Haven't driven an Sc, but EVO mag rate it lower than the R, saying the engine lacks that sparkle
Reassuring thank you. I'm also coming away from '03 111s to the 111r '06.nick_j007 said:
Having looked at prices the SC is just a wee bit too far to go. Bare in mind all of this has to be sanctioned
I believe I have found a very nice 111R and will look at it on Sunday.
Anyone have comments coming from a 160bhp K series to a 190bhp Toyota?
I fear I'm going to miss the flat torque curve of the K series, but I think the time is right to move into a newer car.
I had a 53 plate 111s and went to a 07 plate R. The feel in both cars is completely different in my mind. The toyota engine feels much more modern and more like a tuned, honed engine.I believe I have found a very nice 111R and will look at it on Sunday.
Anyone have comments coming from a 160bhp K series to a 190bhp Toyota?
I fear I'm going to miss the flat torque curve of the K series, but I think the time is right to move into a newer car.
People say there is nothing in it, however I love my R so much more than the 111s, the noise, the feel and the power delivery is awesome when you hit that second cam. Haven't driven an Sc, but EVO mag rate it lower than the R, saying the engine lacks that sparkle
What have been the issues with the LED rear lights btw?
Model I'm looking at has the updated dash if that helps?
Edited by nick_j007 on Thursday 9th February 21:18
Flat6 said:
Each to their own I guess.
Very much so. They are quite different engines and the other modifications to the car made at the same time are quite extensive too. I don't think either is "better", they're just different. I'd never recommend that anyone bought either without driving both first. Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff