How much is tooooo much?
Discussion
In my old elise I always yearned for more power, on the track I felt very comfortable and in total control (135R) and very often got pissed off with losing traffic light grand prix.. ... Yes i know its not a santa pod car !
Been looking at europas for extra tuning potential and maybe even putting a sprog in the back.
so in the elise or europa what sort of power is very fast but usable without having to be a driving god?
I would definitely smash this up ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yZofBIRVbk&fea...
Been looking at europas for extra tuning potential and maybe even putting a sprog in the back.
so in the elise or europa what sort of power is very fast but usable without having to be a driving god?
I would definitely smash this up ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yZofBIRVbk&fea...
Not sure you'll be able to chuck your little one in the back of a Europa, unless you mean the boot? It's still a 2 seater, same as the Elise. 
Personally I find on the road the standard 118bhp Elise is fine, it's still a quick car off the line and you can keep your foot in for a few seconds out the corners and down the straights without doing silly speeds. Taking it out on track at Snetterton I was still running at up to around 115mph by the end of the back straight, although it was a little frustrating catching higher powered Toyota engine cars though the corners only to have them pull away down the straights - most were pretty good at realising and backing off to let 'slower' cars through though.
Driving significantly higher powered cars on the road starts to become a battle between the push the limits and your own self restraints - sure you can pin the throttle down that mile straight, but if you're regularly running around on the road at 100mph+ sooner or later you're going to have an accident or get caught.
Personally I find on the road the standard 118bhp Elise is fine, it's still a quick car off the line and you can keep your foot in for a few seconds out the corners and down the straights without doing silly speeds. Taking it out on track at Snetterton I was still running at up to around 115mph by the end of the back straight, although it was a little frustrating catching higher powered Toyota engine cars though the corners only to have them pull away down the straights - most were pretty good at realising and backing off to let 'slower' cars through though.
Driving significantly higher powered cars on the road starts to become a battle between the push the limits and your own self restraints - sure you can pin the throttle down that mile straight, but if you're regularly running around on the road at 100mph+ sooner or later you're going to have an accident or get caught.
Scuffers said:
... looks bloody planted compared to that europa i posted, so what hp are you pushing in that scuffers?I'd guess at 260 ?
crackthatoff said:
Scuffers said:
take it that's a honda sc''d ... looks bloody planted compared to that europa i posted, so what hp are you pushing in that scuffers?I'd guess at 260 ?
this ones nearer 400, race car on slicks etc.
http://vimeo.com/22818583
Scuffers said:
that one was ~360, it;s only a road car on old 48's
this ones nearer 400, race car on slicks etc.
http://vimeo.com/22818583
Again doesn't look very skittish... so does the elise handle it better than the europa then?this ones nearer 400, race car on slicks etc.
http://vimeo.com/22818583
hmmm !
If you're losing traffic light 'Grands Prix' then you need to sort out your driving! The boggo S1 is one of the fastest production cars made from 0-30 (Only the original Maclaren betters IIRC). At 6ish seconds to 60 the Elise is still faster than most.
Chill in the knowledge that you can 'ave em in the corners'!
Chill in the knowledge that you can 'ave em in the corners'!
TIPPER said:
If you're losing traffic light 'Grands Prix' then you need to sort out your driving! The boggo S1 is one of the fastest production cars made from 0-30 (Only the original Maclaren betters IIRC). At 6ish seconds to 60 the Elise is still faster than most.
Chill in the knowledge that you can 'ave em in the corners'!
that may have been the case back on '96 but there are a fair number of everyday cars that can better it's 0-30 time now (quoted as 1.9 at the time).Chill in the knowledge that you can 'ave em in the corners'!
that aside, in the real world of driving about, it's not really conducive to doing standing start launches, realistically, it's stat's like 30-70 that are more akin to road comparisons.
Scuffers said:
that may have been the case back on '96 but there are a fair number of everyday cars that can better it's 0-30 time now (quoted as 1.9 at the time).
that aside, in the real world of driving about, it's not really conducive to doing standing start launches, realistically, it's stat's like 30-70 that are more akin to road comparisons.
Didn't check (fail!) today's stats on 0-30mph times. With regards 30-70, I totally agree which is why turbo-diesels are so 'real world' fast.that aside, in the real world of driving about, it's not really conducive to doing standing start launches, realistically, it's stat's like 30-70 that are more akin to road comparisons.
I suppose the point I'm making is there's more to a car than straight line speed and if you can't use what you've already got.......
After moving from TVRs I have gradually gone from an S1 Elise up to a 250ish bhp S/C Toyota Exige.
I shared the driving of a 300ish bhp S/C Exige to Le Mans this year and was impressed at how we kept pace with a group of mates in a tweaked 996TT, a F430 Scud and a Testarossa. This persuaded me I wanted at least 220/240 to play with in the real world. Is it any more fun than my older Loti? Debatable, particularly on a tight country lane, but I like having the additional punch in a straight line to back up the handling.
I have passengered in Honda and Audi'ed Elises and Exiges and they are simply awesome and I would seriously consider that route had I not specifically wanted an Exige over an Elise. Too much power? Not in my opinion.
The question for me is where I head when I need more power, particularly given the gearbox question marks. Drove a mates Noble and was impressed by the straight line performance but the on/off turbos had me nervous when accelerating through corners, despite the great handling.
I shared the driving of a 300ish bhp S/C Exige to Le Mans this year and was impressed at how we kept pace with a group of mates in a tweaked 996TT, a F430 Scud and a Testarossa. This persuaded me I wanted at least 220/240 to play with in the real world. Is it any more fun than my older Loti? Debatable, particularly on a tight country lane, but I like having the additional punch in a straight line to back up the handling.
I have passengered in Honda and Audi'ed Elises and Exiges and they are simply awesome and I would seriously consider that route had I not specifically wanted an Exige over an Elise. Too much power? Not in my opinion.
The question for me is where I head when I need more power, particularly given the gearbox question marks. Drove a mates Noble and was impressed by the straight line performance but the on/off turbos had me nervous when accelerating through corners, despite the great handling.
Shnozz said:
After moving from TVRs I have gradually gone from an S1 Elise up to a 250ish bhp S/C Toyota Exige.
I shared the driving of a 300ish bhp S/C Exige to Le Mans this year and was impressed at how we kept pace with a group of mates in a tweaked 996TT, a F430 Scud and a Testarossa. This persuaded me I wanted at least 220/240 to play with in the real world. Is it any more fun than my older Loti? Debatable, particularly on a tight country lane, but I like having the additional punch in a straight line to back up the handling.
I have passengered in Honda and Audi'ed Elises and Exiges and they are simply awesome and I would seriously consider that route had I not specifically wanted an Exige over an Elise. Too much power? Not in my opinion.
The question for me is where I head when I need more power, particularly given the gearbox question marks. Drove a mates Noble and was impressed by the straight line performance but the on/off turbos had me nervous when accelerating through corners, despite the great handling.
If you change 3/4 and final drive for Jubu gears and get a Gearbox oil cooler and decent oil you should be OK.I shared the driving of a 300ish bhp S/C Exige to Le Mans this year and was impressed at how we kept pace with a group of mates in a tweaked 996TT, a F430 Scud and a Testarossa. This persuaded me I wanted at least 220/240 to play with in the real world. Is it any more fun than my older Loti? Debatable, particularly on a tight country lane, but I like having the additional punch in a straight line to back up the handling.
I have passengered in Honda and Audi'ed Elises and Exiges and they are simply awesome and I would seriously consider that route had I not specifically wanted an Exige over an Elise. Too much power? Not in my opinion.
The question for me is where I head when I need more power, particularly given the gearbox question marks. Drove a mates Noble and was impressed by the straight line performance but the on/off turbos had me nervous when accelerating through corners, despite the great handling.
Plenty over 300BHP Yotas around that are driven very hard with no problem.
If you are starting from scratch then I would go Honda/Audi route but if you have a newish Yota you can't really just bin it. Honda/Audi are both tried and tested and have good strong gearboxes.
Keith (Loafingwafu) has had both.
Ex77
Hi
I have a Europa with 245hp and it is quite usable on the road and makes overtaking very easy as unlike the Honda engined cars you don't have to rev the nuts off it.
On the track it is as fast as any Lotus I have come across, unfortunatley it is a different story for the driver!!
cheers
C43
I have a Europa with 245hp and it is quite usable on the road and makes overtaking very easy as unlike the Honda engined cars you don't have to rev the nuts off it.
On the track it is as fast as any Lotus I have come across, unfortunatley it is a different story for the driver!!
cheers
C43
Big numbers is one thing, but how they drive is a BIG factor. My car is similar spec engine wise to the exige in that first vid at Silverstone. Its a pussycat to drive around town as long as your sensible, decent mapping is the key my torque and power curves are pretty linear and that helps a lot.
I would say that BIG power is not necessarily more fun, the SC car (talking honda) makes an awesome road car for day to day. Its effortless and stunningly fast, However with all the torque I too miss the NA, you got to stir the box a bit more with out getting in to too silly speeds.
I would say that BIG power is not necessarily more fun, the SC car (talking honda) makes an awesome road car for day to day. Its effortless and stunningly fast, However with all the torque I too miss the NA, you got to stir the box a bit more with out getting in to too silly speeds.
C43 said:
Hi
I have a Europa with 245hp and it is quite usable on the road and makes overtaking very easy as unlike the Honda engined cars you don't have to rev the nuts off it.
I kind of take issue with this, have you ever driven one? I would suggest that with ~230-250lb/ft of torque available, the need to stir the box or rev the nuts off the engine is somewhat wide of the mark.I have a Europa with 245hp and it is quite usable on the road and makes overtaking very easy as unlike the Honda engined cars you don't have to rev the nuts off it.
Yes, if you want to make the best progress, then you need to be in the top half of the rev range, however, for everyday road driving, you can quite happily drive round in 5th or 6th without the need for down-changes.
Exige77 said:
If you change 3/4 and final drive for Jubu gears and get a Gearbox oil cooler and decent oil you should be OK.
Plenty over 300BHP Yotas around that are driven very hard with no problem.
If you are starting from scratch then I would go Honda/Audi route but if you have a newish Yota you can't really just bin it. Honda/Audi are both tried and tested and have good strong gearboxes.
Keith (Loafingwafu) has had both.
Ex77
I am planning on sticking with the Yota for now and the Exige I drove to Le Mans is fitted with Jubu gears and seems to be holding up so keeping options open. Chargecooler, smaller pulley and one of the fancy manifolds if I want to play with the big boys...Plenty over 300BHP Yotas around that are driven very hard with no problem.
If you are starting from scratch then I would go Honda/Audi route but if you have a newish Yota you can't really just bin it. Honda/Audi are both tried and tested and have good strong gearboxes.
Keith (Loafingwafu) has had both.
Ex77
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