Elise 111s - likely costs with high mileage
Discussion
Apologies if this has been done to death before, but I've searched about and can't find what I'm after.
I'm in the early stages of considering purchase of an Elise 111s with a budget of around £13k, and using it as my daily.
My daily commute is around 80 miles, 60 on A/B country roads and 20 on dual carriageway. Up till recently I've had a company car BMW 123d, but am now considering changing to car allowance instead to get something a bit more interesting.
My thinking (which maybe slightly warped but we'll see) is that a 111s will provide similar mpg to the 123d (42mpg), low'ish depreciation for the number of miles I'll be doing, and is therefore a 'sensible' financial decision to convince swmbo that it's a good idea.
I'm not entirely sure whether I will be able to cope with the daily grind without the comforts I've previously been used to, however I'd like to give it a go. My thinking is to buy in winter, because if I enjoy it when it's cold and wet, I'll love it when the sun comes out
So to my question...if I'm putting 20k miles a year on a 7 year old car with 25k miles on it already, what are the likely costs to maintain it? I'm not talking tyres, brakes, but anything else that I might not budget for.
I'm in the early stages of considering purchase of an Elise 111s with a budget of around £13k, and using it as my daily.
My daily commute is around 80 miles, 60 on A/B country roads and 20 on dual carriageway. Up till recently I've had a company car BMW 123d, but am now considering changing to car allowance instead to get something a bit more interesting.
My thinking (which maybe slightly warped but we'll see) is that a 111s will provide similar mpg to the 123d (42mpg), low'ish depreciation for the number of miles I'll be doing, and is therefore a 'sensible' financial decision to convince swmbo that it's a good idea.
I'm not entirely sure whether I will be able to cope with the daily grind without the comforts I've previously been used to, however I'd like to give it a go. My thinking is to buy in winter, because if I enjoy it when it's cold and wet, I'll love it when the sun comes out
So to my question...if I'm putting 20k miles a year on a 7 year old car with 25k miles on it already, what are the likely costs to maintain it? I'm not talking tyres, brakes, but anything else that I might not budget for.
A lot of it depends on how obsessive you are about the condition of your car. The basics of running an Elise aren't particularly expensive but it's possible to spend an awful lot of time and money chasing down rattles and squeaks, not to mention sorting out stone chips.
In my experience you can expect new dampers at around 40k and new bushes not long after. Geometry probably needs doing about once a year at that mileage to keep it driving right. Steering racks sometimes seem to wear out at about 80k.
Make sure the heater fan resistor pack has been replaced with the later type because the early ones fail and it's a clam-off job to replace it. Ideally it should have had an all aluminium radiator fitted too because the plastic end-caps on the standard unit can let go, but that's probably less likely to have been done. Check the history of the head gasket; it will probably have been replaced at least once and whether it's likely to go again will depend largely on how the repair was done and with what components.
My mileage is massively lower than yours, but there's a fairly comprehensive breakdown of what mine has cost to run as a daily driver in my profile.
The car isn't uncomfortable as such, but it is noisy and tiring to drive long distances. You'll almost certainly want to invest in some ear-plugs and whilst sports exhausts might have novelty value for a while, I think you'll want a standard one back pretty quickly if you're doing many miles - the 111S has a bypass valve thing which keeps the engine quite quiet at low revs.
In my experience you can expect new dampers at around 40k and new bushes not long after. Geometry probably needs doing about once a year at that mileage to keep it driving right. Steering racks sometimes seem to wear out at about 80k.
Make sure the heater fan resistor pack has been replaced with the later type because the early ones fail and it's a clam-off job to replace it. Ideally it should have had an all aluminium radiator fitted too because the plastic end-caps on the standard unit can let go, but that's probably less likely to have been done. Check the history of the head gasket; it will probably have been replaced at least once and whether it's likely to go again will depend largely on how the repair was done and with what components.
My mileage is massively lower than yours, but there's a fairly comprehensive breakdown of what mine has cost to run as a daily driver in my profile.
The car isn't uncomfortable as such, but it is noisy and tiring to drive long distances. You'll almost certainly want to invest in some ear-plugs and whilst sports exhausts might have novelty value for a while, I think you'll want a standard one back pretty quickly if you're doing many miles - the 111S has a bypass valve thing which keeps the engine quite quiet at low revs.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 9th November 23:07
Around 50k-80k, you're also likely to need new balljoints, new TREs, new wheel bearings etc etc.
The parts are cheap, but you'll save a fortune if you can do things yourself. I think I got quoted £80 per ball joint for labour - so with parts - x8 - £800 on ball joints alone!
They're easy to change yourself though, so you'll save £700 if willing to DIY.
So yeah, it's easy to spend £2-4k on suspension parts if everything has to be done at the garage. All depends how hard you drive it as to when things will wear out though.
Leather door sills take a hammering over big miles, but cheap to replace.
I'd say that's about it. It's the suspension that seems to wear out quickish, the rest is pretty solid.
The parts are cheap, but you'll save a fortune if you can do things yourself. I think I got quoted £80 per ball joint for labour - so with parts - x8 - £800 on ball joints alone!
They're easy to change yourself though, so you'll save £700 if willing to DIY.
So yeah, it's easy to spend £2-4k on suspension parts if everything has to be done at the garage. All depends how hard you drive it as to when things will wear out though.
Leather door sills take a hammering over big miles, but cheap to replace.
I'd say that's about it. It's the suspension that seems to wear out quickish, the rest is pretty solid.
I would agree with the above sentiments.
Suspension refresh I believe is £1k via specialist to include ball joints, wheel bearings, track rod ends and then add on £600 for new dampers. You may well find a car that has had this all done though, as an example my car has had over the last 4 years suspension refresh, Nitron's, new tyres, Duratec engine fitted, 111S seats, ally rad, etc which i am now considering selling.
Suspension refresh I believe is £1k via specialist to include ball joints, wheel bearings, track rod ends and then add on £600 for new dampers. You may well find a car that has had this all done though, as an example my car has had over the last 4 years suspension refresh, Nitron's, new tyres, Duratec engine fitted, 111S seats, ally rad, etc which i am now considering selling.
Mark B said:
I would agree with the above sentiments.
Suspension refresh I believe is £1k via specialist to include ball joints, wheel bearings, track rod ends and then add on £600 for new dampers. You may well find a car that has had this all done though, as an example my car has had over the last 4 years suspension refresh, Nitron's, new tyres, Duratec engine fitted, 111S seats, ally rad, etc which i am now considering selling.
You should be a salesman!Suspension refresh I believe is £1k via specialist to include ball joints, wheel bearings, track rod ends and then add on £600 for new dampers. You may well find a car that has had this all done though, as an example my car has had over the last 4 years suspension refresh, Nitron's, new tyres, Duratec engine fitted, 111S seats, ally rad, etc which i am now considering selling.
Mark B said:
I would agree with the above sentiments.
Suspension refresh I believe is £1k via specialist to include ball joints, wheel bearings, track rod ends and then add on £600 for new dampers. You may well find a car that has had this all done though, as an example my car has had over the last 4 years suspension refresh, Nitron's, new tyres, Duratec engine fitted, 111S seats, ally rad, etc which i am now considering selling.
Bushes? That's the time consuming job. The stuff you mention can all be done without totally dismantling each corner. Suspension refresh I believe is £1k via specialist to include ball joints, wheel bearings, track rod ends and then add on £600 for new dampers. You may well find a car that has had this all done though, as an example my car has had over the last 4 years suspension refresh, Nitron's, new tyres, Duratec engine fitted, 111S seats, ally rad, etc which i am now considering selling.
I've just totted up the cost of bushes, standard toe links, ball joints, TREs, drop links and bearings - nearly £750 for the parts alone so you're not going to get a refresh for £1k. If you fitted a Uniball toe-link kit (recommended as I know of two cars that have had toe-link failures on the road) then the cost for parts becomes over £950. I haven't included the cost of a steering rack refurb in that (I was luck enough to get mine pro refurbed for about £80) - its a sod of a job to diy (upside down, head in footwell) too!
I wouldn't bother with doing the bearings unless they are suspect - replace as necessary. I still managed to spend the cost of them on other things though keeping my parts spend on nearly £1k!
I did a refresh job myself and know I spent as near as damn it £1k on parts and and neccessary odds and sods before the cost of a set of Nitron one ways. Even a set of Nitron Street Series or Bilsteins is going to come in at £680.
Don't forget the cost of a geo when you've finished the job - again diyable with poles/string but very time consuming if you've never done it before.
Worth doing? - definately. Amazing difference on my car (done after about 65k miles).
Edited by TIPPER on Thursday 10th November 20:08
kambites said:
The car isn't uncomfortable as such, but it is noisy and tiring to drive long distances. You'll almost certainly want to invest in some ear-plugs and whilst sports exhausts might have novelty value for a while, I think you'll want a standard one back pretty quickly if you're doing many miles - the 111S has a bypass valve thing which keeps the engine quite quiet at low revs.
If a sports exhaust is fitted, does that do away with the bypass valve? Mine is noisy all through the rev range; when combined with road and wind noise it makes motorway driving rather uncomfortable!Definately agree with the ear plugs, they make lower speed cruising rather civilised.
Platinum said:
If a sports exhaust is fitted, does that do away with the bypass valve? Mine is noisy all through the rev range; when combined with road and wind noise it makes motorway driving rather uncomfortable!
Definately agree with the ear plugs, they make lower speed cruising rather civilised.
All depends on the type of exhaust - there's several on the market.Definately agree with the ear plugs, they make lower speed cruising rather civilised.
I like the idea of what you suggest but think you will tire of it quite quickly.
First off, I don't think you will actually get anything like 40 plus mpg if you give it a spirited drive to and from work. A friend of mine has a 123d coupe and I know they are very frugal. Incidentally he's chipped his and has had some amazing results very pleased with it and he has run a 911 (993)as a daily so knows his stuff.
I've run an elise for track days and driven it a distance to and from track days and it certaily is tiring to drive and noisy. I opted for a mini cooper s at one point and got the cab version (mistake), I opted for that on grounds of low depreciation for new car (True) but noise again was a problem - I use a phone in the car a lot and so after 2 short years had to let it go even though it was a fabulous driver.
I'm going to throw a suggestion into the mix. Have you considered a Mini cooper S (turbo), supercharged were lovely but big drink problem. If you buy new and frankly I would as they represent good value compared to used, don't over spec though it and keep it simple. As a bmw driver you will love the quality and as a driver they are fantastic. On a wet day they can humiliate the big guns from porsche and BMW and yet provide a lot of entertainment. If you buy new say over 3 years your service costs will be next to nothing, fuel consumption driven carefully will give you high 30's and they are cracking to drive. Residual rates are good which make a finance purchase option affordable. Target circa £300 pcm.
First off, I don't think you will actually get anything like 40 plus mpg if you give it a spirited drive to and from work. A friend of mine has a 123d coupe and I know they are very frugal. Incidentally he's chipped his and has had some amazing results very pleased with it and he has run a 911 (993)as a daily so knows his stuff.
I've run an elise for track days and driven it a distance to and from track days and it certaily is tiring to drive and noisy. I opted for a mini cooper s at one point and got the cab version (mistake), I opted for that on grounds of low depreciation for new car (True) but noise again was a problem - I use a phone in the car a lot and so after 2 short years had to let it go even though it was a fabulous driver.
I'm going to throw a suggestion into the mix. Have you considered a Mini cooper S (turbo), supercharged were lovely but big drink problem. If you buy new and frankly I would as they represent good value compared to used, don't over spec though it and keep it simple. As a bmw driver you will love the quality and as a driver they are fantastic. On a wet day they can humiliate the big guns from porsche and BMW and yet provide a lot of entertainment. If you buy new say over 3 years your service costs will be next to nothing, fuel consumption driven carefully will give you high 30's and they are cracking to drive. Residual rates are good which make a finance purchase option affordable. Target circa £300 pcm.
Edited by r7ehw on Friday 11th November 10:09
r7ehw said:
First off, I don't think you will actually get anything like 40 plus mpg if you give it a spirited drive to and from work.
I've been tracking mine for the last 3000 miles on an iPhone app, and it's averaging 39mpg. This is purely a weekend car so it's always driven spiritedly, and includes a track day that destroyed the rear tyres...r7ehw said:
I like the idea of what you suggest but think you will tire of it quite quickly.
First off, I don't think you will actually get anything like 40 plus mpg if you give it a spirited drive to and from work. A friend of mine has a 123d coupe and I know they are very frugal. Incidentally he's chipped his and has had some amazing results very pleased with it and he has run a 911 (993)as a daily so knows his stuff.
I've run an elise for track days and driven it a distance to and from track days and it certaily is tiring to drive and noisy. I opted for a mini cooper s at one point and got the cab version (mistake), I opted for that on grounds of low depreciation for new car (True) but noise again was a problem - I use a phone in the car a lot and so after 2 short years had to let it go even though it was a fabulous driver.
I'm going to throw a suggestion into the mix. Have you considered a Mini cooper S (turbo), supercharged were lovely but big drink problem. If you buy new and frankly I would as they represent good value compared to used, don't over spec though it and keep it simple. As a bmw driver you will love the quality and as a driver they are fantastic. On a wet day they can humiliate the big guns from porsche and BMW and yet provide a lot of entertainment. If you buy new say over 3 years your service costs will be next to nothing, fuel consumption driven carefully will give you high 30's and they are cracking to drive. Residual rates are good which make a finance purchase option affordable. Target circa £300 pcm.
I often used to get an easy 40mpg out of mine, not at the moment due to a dodgy sensor and running stupidly rich. First off, I don't think you will actually get anything like 40 plus mpg if you give it a spirited drive to and from work. A friend of mine has a 123d coupe and I know they are very frugal. Incidentally he's chipped his and has had some amazing results very pleased with it and he has run a 911 (993)as a daily so knows his stuff.
I've run an elise for track days and driven it a distance to and from track days and it certaily is tiring to drive and noisy. I opted for a mini cooper s at one point and got the cab version (mistake), I opted for that on grounds of low depreciation for new car (True) but noise again was a problem - I use a phone in the car a lot and so after 2 short years had to let it go even though it was a fabulous driver.
I'm going to throw a suggestion into the mix. Have you considered a Mini cooper S (turbo), supercharged were lovely but big drink problem. If you buy new and frankly I would as they represent good value compared to used, don't over spec though it and keep it simple. As a bmw driver you will love the quality and as a driver they are fantastic. On a wet day they can humiliate the big guns from porsche and BMW and yet provide a lot of entertainment. If you buy new say over 3 years your service costs will be next to nothing, fuel consumption driven carefully will give you high 30's and they are cracking to drive. Residual rates are good which make a finance purchase option affordable. Target circa £300 pcm.
Edited by r7ehw on Friday 11th November 10:09
Obviously if you're bouncing off the limiter you won't, mind... Depends how you drive.
The only thing I find tiring is the noise - set of ear plugs and it's as comfortable as any other car (I've broken several bones in my spine, and I actually find the firm seats better than any others I've tried since).
Oh yeah, it's also a pain to drive in the dark during rush hour - you're right in the eyeline of every bugger's headlights, and I find (with a black car) that lots of people just don't see me when I'm in the lane next to them.
Platinum said:
If a sports exhaust is fitted, does that do away with the bypass valve?
Yes, it does, unless the exhaust you buy has an active valve and I've never seen one advertised as such. The valve is in the exhaust (I think it blocks off one of the tail-pipes). Edited by kambites on Friday 11th November 13:12
r7ehw said:
First off, I don't think you will actually get anything like 40 plus mpg if you give it a spirited drive to and from work.
I average about 37mpg and that's predominantly on my 5 mile commute. It'd be significantly higher on longer trips where the engine is properly up to temperature for most of the journey. When driving a significant distance, even if pushing on, I don't struggle to break 40mpg. 50 is possible on the motorway. My 111R is considerably less economical than the 111S, it gets driven fairly quickly on rural B-roads and typically not that far. I've an app on my phone which I key every fill of fuel into, have done since before I got the Elise, and so far over two and a half years and 13000 miles it's averaged 30mpg.
With the sort of use the OP proposes, I reckon I'd get mid thirties from my car and 40 from a 111S should be easy.
With the sort of use the OP proposes, I reckon I'd get mid thirties from my car and 40 from a 111S should be easy.
Bugger, wish I hadn't asked now as you've put me off 
I didn't realise the noise was such an issue to be honest, and I use my phone quite a bit on the way to and from work so this sounds like a non-starter.
Kambites - thanks for the link to your running costs. £3000 for servicing over 13,500 miles sounds a bit steep, was there anything odd in there or is that normal?
The reason for looking at the Elise was thinking the running costs may be similar, but I think apart from the mpg that was a little naive, as they're obviously not really designed for this kind of use.
I didn't realise the noise was such an issue to be honest, and I use my phone quite a bit on the way to and from work so this sounds like a non-starter.
Kambites - thanks for the link to your running costs. £3000 for servicing over 13,500 miles sounds a bit steep, was there anything odd in there or is that normal?
The reason for looking at the Elise was thinking the running costs may be similar, but I think apart from the mpg that was a little naive, as they're obviously not really designed for this kind of use.
antspants said:
Bugger, wish I hadn't asked now as you've put me off
I didn't realise the noise was such an issue to be honest, and I use my phone quite a bit on the way to and from work so this sounds like a non-starter.
Kambites - thanks for the link to your running costs. £3000 for servicing over 13,500 miles sounds a bit steep, was there anything odd in there or is that normal?
The reason for looking at the Elise was thinking the running costs may be similar, but I think apart from the mpg that was a little naive, as they're obviously not really designed for this kind of use.
It's pretty unlucky to end up spending that much over just 13,000 miles IMO - it all depends on what state the car is in when you buy it though. Buy one where things are just about to wear out, and it could turn out to be pricey. I didn't realise the noise was such an issue to be honest, and I use my phone quite a bit on the way to and from work so this sounds like a non-starter.
Kambites - thanks for the link to your running costs. £3000 for servicing over 13,500 miles sounds a bit steep, was there anything odd in there or is that normal?
The reason for looking at the Elise was thinking the running costs may be similar, but I think apart from the mpg that was a little naive, as they're obviously not really designed for this kind of use.
Then again, once you've carried out all the big jobs, it should be a cheap car to run for the next xx,xxx miles.
What about the Europa? A lot more sound deadening. Not sure what MPG you'll get out of it though. Worth a try?
antspants said:
Kambites - thanks for the link to your running costs. £3000 for servicing over 13,500 miles sounds a bit steep, was there anything odd in there or is that normal?
All the individual costs are listed if you click on the "blog" button at the top of the page. Mileage isn't relevant to me because I don't do enough for it to be serviced on mileage, just on age. The belts have been done twice in that time (they're every four years), plus the head gasket and blower resistor pack both went. Brakes (both discs and pads) were replaced once and it's going to need dampers in the next year or so. Any other 16k car you'd have paid double that in depreciation in that time anyway. If you doubled or even tripled the mileage I'd done in that time, I doubt it would have cost significantly more.
To be honest though, I don't think it's the right kind of car for you anyway if you're the kind of person who wants to chat on the phone while you drive - it's too loud and too... hyperactive. The Elise is really a car that likes to be driven, it doesn't really suffer you to do other things at the same time very well. A Europa might be worth a look, although I doubt you'd better 30mpg in one.
Edited by kambites on Monday 14th November 18:29
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