New 111S

Author
Discussion

adeewuff

Original Poster:

567 posts

277 months

Tuesday 21st May 2002
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Autocar have photos and a road test with the new 111S and from what they wrote seems pretty fast.

Is it just me or is the launch these new Elise models becoming a non-event?

The pricing of the new the 111S seems completely bizarre, it's priced cheaper than the 135 and the same price as the basic 120 bhp + pack??

Nightmare

5,230 posts

291 months

Wednesday 22nd May 2002
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that is weird...mind you, Lotus pricing around these models has never made any real sense to me.....remmber that Autocar are usually as factually correct as Peter Mandelson though....

adeewuff

Original Poster:

567 posts

277 months

Wednesday 22nd May 2002
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Autocar did also point out that with a pack and the hard top the overall price was well over £30k!!!!

So you could get a brand new TVR Tamora for only £6k more and a new basic boxster for the same money. I'm sorry but the pricing is ludicrous for the car you are getting. Hey, why not just buy a Civic Type-R and a Mini Cooper S instead?

e_schoen

3 posts

289 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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Get both of them for a track day and you will get the answer toward the S2 !!!

adeewuff

Original Poster:

567 posts

277 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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On a fast circuit the CTR will beat an Elise... I've seen it! But is the CTR more fun? Well the grin on the CTR drivers face as he whizzed past me said it all.

Xelio

1 posts

270 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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Sorry, but there is no way on earth a Civic Type R would ever beat a properly driven S2 around any circuit. It would probably beat it mid range in a straight line, but under brakes and cornering it simply doesn't get close. But then again it shouldn't either. The Elise is designed from the ground up to focus specifically handling and track work. The CTR is a brilliant car but it's not a track car.

adeewuff

Original Poster:

567 posts

277 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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Errrr.... actually no. The CTR I saw at Goodwood was beating everything, (120bhp, 135bhp, 160bhp Elises) in the dry and in the wet. If you don't believe me, well that's fine, but if you go to a track day try not to feel gutted when one overtakes you!

Nightmare

5,230 posts

291 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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impressive....was it standard?

adeewuff

Original Poster:

567 posts

277 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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The car was showroom spec and had not even been run properly (need about 5000 miles to get a Honda engine run in).

It's performance was so impressive I sold the Elise and bought one!

Nightmare

5,230 posts

291 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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er....you serious? blimey...will have to go and have a play then....

Bonce

4,339 posts

286 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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Sorry Adam but that means nothing. A well driven Fiesta will beat a poorly driven Elise 160.

adeewuff

Original Poster:

567 posts

277 months

Thursday 23rd May 2002
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Bonce I agree wholeheartedly, maybe the other Elise drivers weren't as good as the driver in the CTR. All I want to get over is that on that particular day the CTR was faster on that track than all the Elises were. Why do some people find this difficult to believe?!

Goodwood itself is extremely fast and does suit higher powered cars so that might explain it. On a twistier track I'm sure an Elise would have the advantage through it's lighter weight, but it would still prove to be an interesting comparison.

One thing I don't like is when people dismiss a car because "it's not a proper sports car" "it isn't real wheel drive" "it looks like a shopping cart". I sensed a degree of this when the CTR lined up in the pits with 340Rs and new Elise S2s, alot of people dismissed it there and then. Needless to say there was many a red face when it came after it's first session, including mine!

Nightmare

5,230 posts

291 months

Friday 24th May 2002
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quote:

Why do some people find this difficult to believe?!


probably because the elise is a very track biased car, the CTR aint. It has a far higher centre of gravity, and NO WAY could it maintain anything like an elise lateral G because of this (basic laws of physics!) also I guses cos basic elises embarass all sortf of things (most Tivs for starters) on tracks simply cos reduced weight, later braking, faster corner speeds. etc.... It's very unusual I would think of a standard 'hot hatch' to make this big an impression...especially after watching that 111s follow the F40 vid.....

doesn't mean people dismiss it - I certainly wouldn't - just unusual I think you'd agree

Night

vteclimey

287 posts

288 months

Saturday 25th May 2002
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quote:

Bonce I agree wholeheartedly, maybe the other Elise drivers weren't as good as the driver in the CTR. All I want to get over is that on that particular day the CTR was faster on that track than all the Elises were. Why do some people find this difficult to believe?!



because it proves nothing.

i have overtaken a 355 in my 10yo civic on an airfield day. that proves nothing either.

i would not be surprised if i even managed to lap a track faster in a CTR than an Elise. but that would only prove i knew how to drive FWD better than RWD.

Track day annecdotes like you have quoted rarely (if ever) prove anything about which car is better than which.

hungryjim

883 posts

272 months

Saturday 25th May 2002
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An Elise would certainly beet a ctr its way faster.The basic Elise would rip it in the wet or the dry.There is no possible way that a CTR could Do it Its FF and the Elise is MR .You must be imagining things!
The Pricing seems funny to me as well but thats Lotus
The New 111s seems good Except for the new alloys.

Hungryjim@aol.com

adeewuff

Original Poster:

567 posts

277 months

Saturday 25th May 2002
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quote:

An Elise would certainly beet a ctr its way faster.


*Sigh* OK, Maybe I shouldn't have debated this in the Elise forum!

Nightmare

5,230 posts

291 months

Monday 27th May 2002
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hey - I didn't disagree!!

broccoli

254 posts

274 months

Monday 27th May 2002
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Too add my 2ps worth. Take a look at the N'ring times here: http://bmwdeler.no/nordschleife.html

The Exige with more bhp than the Elise is 5 secs quicker than the CTR. I would have guessed the lower powered Elises would be slower than the Civic.

Get my CTR next month

broccoli

254 posts

274 months

Monday 27th May 2002
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Oh the above was for Hungry Jim to chew on

B@W

100 posts

270 months

Tuesday 28th May 2002
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Not been on a car forum seen the old EVO forum went all Max Power (looks likes theres some familiar names from back in the day).

So I take it the CTR is the 172 for the millenium?