S1 for sale with MMC disc's: replace or groove?
Discussion
Hey Guys,
After stepping away from an S160 after reading the comments on PH, I now have found myself a S1. It has the OE MMC discs.
As I understand it, the MMC discs have the benefit of being light and very wear resistant, but their stopping power in the wet is terrible. Now, after reading on the EBC site, I got to think: what if I get the MMC discs grooved? I refer to the 'stripes' that you also see on the EBC Ultimax discs. Not perforated, as I understand that will just wear down the pads more quickly and likely make them squeal.
I intend to use the car on public roads only, in wet and dry conditions.
Any thoughts on this idea? Any experience on the MMC's shared would be appreciated...
Cheers, Tom
After stepping away from an S160 after reading the comments on PH, I now have found myself a S1. It has the OE MMC discs.
As I understand it, the MMC discs have the benefit of being light and very wear resistant, but their stopping power in the wet is terrible. Now, after reading on the EBC site, I got to think: what if I get the MMC discs grooved? I refer to the 'stripes' that you also see on the EBC Ultimax discs. Not perforated, as I understand that will just wear down the pads more quickly and likely make them squeal.
I intend to use the car on public roads only, in wet and dry conditions.
Any thoughts on this idea? Any experience on the MMC's shared would be appreciated...
Cheers, Tom
Bad history ref. See my earlier posts and the replies.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The car is now for sale in Holland by the way.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The car is now for sale in Holland by the way.
Flying Tommy said:
Hey Guys,
After stepping away from an S160 after reading the comments on PH, I now have found myself a S1. It has the OE MMC discs.
As I understand it, the MMC discs have the benefit of being light and very wear resistant, but their stopping power in the wet is terrible. Now, after reading on the EBC site, I got to think: what if I get the MMC discs grooved? I refer to the 'stripes' that you also see on the EBC Ultimax discs. Not perforated, as I understand that will just wear down the pads more quickly and likely make them squeal.
I intend to use the car on public roads only, in wet and dry conditions.
Any thoughts on this idea? Any experience on the MMC's shared would be appreciated...
Cheers, Tom
that's the most stupid idea I have ever heard!After stepping away from an S160 after reading the comments on PH, I now have found myself a S1. It has the OE MMC discs.
As I understand it, the MMC discs have the benefit of being light and very wear resistant, but their stopping power in the wet is terrible. Now, after reading on the EBC site, I got to think: what if I get the MMC discs grooved? I refer to the 'stripes' that you also see on the EBC Ultimax discs. Not perforated, as I understand that will just wear down the pads more quickly and likely make them squeal.
I intend to use the car on public roads only, in wet and dry conditions.
Any thoughts on this idea? Any experience on the MMC's shared would be appreciated...
Cheers, Tom
MMC's are fine unless they are totally soaked (like when you just washed the car)
only downsides are make sure you use the proper MMC pads, NOT EBC or the like.
MMCs are net fine. On a standard car on street thrashing they should take all the road and track abuse you can give them. They sometimes take a couple of seconds to bite when very wet and cold but this is only really an issue in streaming wet conditions on the motorway and is easily solved by just touching the brake pedal every mile or two to clear them. Other than that they're the best brakes for the Elise. I just wish they could run cool enough for my Exige as is love the weight saving.
While I think MMC's give the best feel and on paper the reduction in unsprung weight sounds great (I doubt you'll notice the difference) they can be lethal in the wet. I remember way back in '97 when I took delivery of my Elise driving back to Macedonia on a German autobahn in pouring rain. Suddenly brake lights came on in front of me, no problem plenty of room in front... only to discover no brakes, I must have come close to snapping the brake petal with the amount of force I applied. Avoided a crash but was pretty shaken. To those who say just dab the brakes every couple of miles, I say good luck firstly remembering to do it on a long trip and secondly what if something happens at the 1.9 mile mark? The reality is they should never have come to market and if they had appeared on a mainstream car Lotus would have been taken to the cleaners.
For track use in a standard car they are brilliant and to boot the discs and pads last forever. But if you pump to much energy into them then they will melt.
This was the result after I went down the Honda conversion route. I even tried water cooling them by diverting the windscreen washer bottle/pump to spray nozzles going to each disc with a switch connected to the brake light circuit. It kind of worked but needed more fine tuning than I could be bothered with. Have used ali-belled discs ever since and while I still miss the MMC's to the point I might revisit the water cooling idea one day, iron discs are close enough without the disadvantages of MMC's.
My advice don't drive in the wet or switch over to iron discs.
For track use in a standard car they are brilliant and to boot the discs and pads last forever. But if you pump to much energy into them then they will melt.
This was the result after I went down the Honda conversion route. I even tried water cooling them by diverting the windscreen washer bottle/pump to spray nozzles going to each disc with a switch connected to the brake light circuit. It kind of worked but needed more fine tuning than I could be bothered with. Have used ali-belled discs ever since and while I still miss the MMC's to the point I might revisit the water cooling idea one day, iron discs are close enough without the disadvantages of MMC's.
My advice don't drive in the wet or switch over to iron discs.
I'm now on my second S1 Elise, the first had MMCs the second is on steels. I notice no difference in terms of unsprung weight or braking. The thing I liked the best about the MMCs was the lack of brake dust, your wheels stayed clean for ages. Reports of MMCs poor performance in the wet have not been exaggerated. They gave me a fright on more than one occasion and the conditions during which they offered no retardation weren't that bad. Yes, I never had an accident and a second stab of the brake pedal always brought back the bite but in an emergency "Oh $h1t!" moment I'm not sure you'd have the presence of mind to do a double tap.
Hey guys,
Well, as it seems there is a whole variaty on experience with the MMC's. As I have bought the S1, I too have albeit only 200k with the breaks.
Being used to a automatic car (which breaks like an anchor with only the slighted touch), I don't feel anything strange on the breaks. As the car is light, it's stopping power is no reason for fear. However, I have yet to drive in the wet. And I am not as much as impressed with the breaking power as I am with the gripping and acceleration power of the S1. So I like to upgrade.
Now, I'm not going to do any track days, just some weekends serious driving on German roads now and then. So, when checking out Elise-shop, I see a whole variety of disks. A&P is nice, but a bit too pushy on the budget. Anyone experience with the Elise-shop items? Or with the (black-ish) EBC disks? The MMC's squeal sometimes for a short time, and that is OK. However, a fat squeal is not what I am looking for.
And for blocks of course the same questions. Pagit sounds sexy, but for road use maybe too hard=wearing and dusty and I don't maintain them on a high temp on the street? And how are the Green stuff pads on dust and in the wet?
So, any advice?
Well, as it seems there is a whole variaty on experience with the MMC's. As I have bought the S1, I too have albeit only 200k with the breaks.
Being used to a automatic car (which breaks like an anchor with only the slighted touch), I don't feel anything strange on the breaks. As the car is light, it's stopping power is no reason for fear. However, I have yet to drive in the wet. And I am not as much as impressed with the breaking power as I am with the gripping and acceleration power of the S1. So I like to upgrade.
Now, I'm not going to do any track days, just some weekends serious driving on German roads now and then. So, when checking out Elise-shop, I see a whole variety of disks. A&P is nice, but a bit too pushy on the budget. Anyone experience with the Elise-shop items? Or with the (black-ish) EBC disks? The MMC's squeal sometimes for a short time, and that is OK. However, a fat squeal is not what I am looking for.
And for blocks of course the same questions. Pagit sounds sexy, but for road use maybe too hard=wearing and dusty and I don't maintain them on a high temp on the street? And how are the Green stuff pads on dust and in the wet?
So, any advice?
if your looking for a road car solution then realistically, AP etc is massively over the top
even these:
are plenty good enough with some decent pads.
Pad wise, avoid EBC like the plague, Greens are a total joke (really don't get how they are still sold).
I would suggest something like Mintex 1144:
also, if you want to improve pedal feel, change the brake hoses for these:
even these:
are plenty good enough with some decent pads.
Pad wise, avoid EBC like the plague, Greens are a total joke (really don't get how they are still sold).
I would suggest something like Mintex 1144:
also, if you want to improve pedal feel, change the brake hoses for these:
I purchased the discs above that Scuffers has recommended and braided hoses about 12 months ago, but with Carbone Lorraine RC5+ pads. They are dramatically better than the MMCs, particularly in the wet where the MMCs really weren't good. Also, the constant squealing has gone, which used to drive me nuts.
Edited by JADCampbell on Sunday 9th October 21:22
Thanx for the comments!
Yeah, those are the discs I had in mind. Not too bad on the price per set. And probably not too bad looking on my grey car too. As it appears, front and rear are the same size discs, just different size pads?
No EBC on pads huh, OK, that's a first.
I'll have a look at the pads you guys mention. Next pay-check will fall victim to them I think...
'Bout those hoses; already got them. Fortunately the previous owner invested in them. Although they aren't that much of an investment. On the other hand he left the notorious red clutch pipe on the car; weird... Already received the braided hose from the elise-shop, just have to find time to pop it on there, within the left sil/ main alloy beam. I expected the braid to be covered in some sort of shrink-rap/ smooth plastic cover; now it is sort of a saw when it just lays about in the main alloy beam? I am looking about for a shrink-pipe, commonly used in the electronics business. And I guess I have to transfer the foam cover from the red pipe to the new hose? (But that is a bit drifting away from the main break topic...)
Cheers!
Yeah, those are the discs I had in mind. Not too bad on the price per set. And probably not too bad looking on my grey car too. As it appears, front and rear are the same size discs, just different size pads?
No EBC on pads huh, OK, that's a first.
I'll have a look at the pads you guys mention. Next pay-check will fall victim to them I think...
'Bout those hoses; already got them. Fortunately the previous owner invested in them. Although they aren't that much of an investment. On the other hand he left the notorious red clutch pipe on the car; weird... Already received the braided hose from the elise-shop, just have to find time to pop it on there, within the left sil/ main alloy beam. I expected the braid to be covered in some sort of shrink-rap/ smooth plastic cover; now it is sort of a saw when it just lays about in the main alloy beam? I am looking about for a shrink-pipe, commonly used in the electronics business. And I guess I have to transfer the foam cover from the red pipe to the new hose? (But that is a bit drifting away from the main break topic...)
Cheers!
Edited by Flying Tommy on Thursday 6th October 07:19
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