Discussion
A few questions about the classic 900 please.
How many different turbo variants and how do they compare in terms of performance/economy/reliability?
I've seen 8v, 16v, LPT, FPT, Aero, APC.
I think Aero is a trim level rather than engine because i've seen LPT and fpt aeros in the adverts?
I'm thinking of a 3 or 5 door, I want reasonable performance and economy - years ago I had a 9000 2.3 T16 (200bhp I think?) which went well and turned in around 30mpg. Will I be looking at similar performance/economy?
Are the 900i worth looking at ? How do they compare?
What do I need to watch out for? How little can I get away with spending on a good one?
My inclination is an LPT assuming that it will give decent performance and good economy and presumably be less stressed than a full blown turbo?
How many different turbo variants and how do they compare in terms of performance/economy/reliability?
I've seen 8v, 16v, LPT, FPT, Aero, APC.
I think Aero is a trim level rather than engine because i've seen LPT and fpt aeros in the adverts?
I'm thinking of a 3 or 5 door, I want reasonable performance and economy - years ago I had a 9000 2.3 T16 (200bhp I think?) which went well and turned in around 30mpg. Will I be looking at similar performance/economy?
Are the 900i worth looking at ? How do they compare?
What do I need to watch out for? How little can I get away with spending on a good one?
My inclination is an LPT assuming that it will give decent performance and good economy and presumably be less stressed than a full blown turbo?
I would have a look at the UK Saabs website.
We have had 2 c900 turbos - in my view the 3 door hatch is by far the best looking variant. The boot is huge, it looks great, whilst the 5 door just doesn't look sporty to me.
I am not sure about the engine variants, but I'm pretty sure Aero spec is more than just trim/body kit changes.
I would definitely get a turbo - great fun to drive, and whilst I haven't had a non-turbo, I would say that they are a far bit slower by comparison from what I have read. Turbo's are more sought after and expensive, though. At one time, the FPT was considered the one to get, but I'm not sure that in daily driving there will be that much of a noticeable difference.
c900 turbo's aren't as cheap as they used to be, but if you can get a decent one you can probably sell it for what you paid for it, if you find you don't like it.
The main down side for us was the poor fuel economy - well under 30 mpg most of the time (mostly did short runs). Also, the last one was unreliable and an automatic which didn't help the mpg. I still miss it though, and wish I had spent the money having it sorted out.
Where are you located? A good local specialist to service it is a must. Hope all this helps, sorry I'm not up to speed on the problems/what to look for, but someone will be along soon who does know.
We have had 2 c900 turbos - in my view the 3 door hatch is by far the best looking variant. The boot is huge, it looks great, whilst the 5 door just doesn't look sporty to me.
I am not sure about the engine variants, but I'm pretty sure Aero spec is more than just trim/body kit changes.
I would definitely get a turbo - great fun to drive, and whilst I haven't had a non-turbo, I would say that they are a far bit slower by comparison from what I have read. Turbo's are more sought after and expensive, though. At one time, the FPT was considered the one to get, but I'm not sure that in daily driving there will be that much of a noticeable difference.
c900 turbo's aren't as cheap as they used to be, but if you can get a decent one you can probably sell it for what you paid for it, if you find you don't like it.
The main down side for us was the poor fuel economy - well under 30 mpg most of the time (mostly did short runs). Also, the last one was unreliable and an automatic which didn't help the mpg. I still miss it though, and wish I had spent the money having it sorted out.
Where are you located? A good local specialist to service it is a must. Hope all this helps, sorry I'm not up to speed on the problems/what to look for, but someone will be along soon who does know.
Cheers, I'll have a look over there.
I suppose saabscene/saabcentral etc are all worth checking.
There is a place down the road that used to be a saab specialist although they have gone over to audi in the last couple of years - I may drop in and ask them if they still do saabs. I dont know if they changed because of a change of ownership or if they just decided that modern audis are a better bet than modern saabs.
I suppose saabscene/saabcentral etc are all worth checking.
There is a place down the road that used to be a saab specialist although they have gone over to audi in the last couple of years - I may drop in and ask them if they still do saabs. I dont know if they changed because of a change of ownership or if they just decided that modern audis are a better bet than modern saabs.
TooLateForAName said:
A few questions about the classic 900 please.
How many different turbo variants and how do they compare in terms of performance/economy/reliability?
I've seen 8v, 16v, LPT, FPT, Aero, APC.
I think Aero is a trim level rather than engine because i've seen LPT and fpt aeros in the adverts?
I'm thinking of a 3 or 5 door, I want reasonable performance and economy - years ago I had a 9000 2.3 T16 (200bhp I think?) which went well and turned in around 30mpg. Will I be looking at similar performance/economy?
Are the 900i worth looking at ? How do they compare?
What do I need to watch out for? How little can I get away with spending on a good one?
My inclination is an LPT assuming that it will give decent performance and good economy and presumably be less stressed than a full blown turbo?
OK,How many different turbo variants and how do they compare in terms of performance/economy/reliability?
I've seen 8v, 16v, LPT, FPT, Aero, APC.
I think Aero is a trim level rather than engine because i've seen LPT and fpt aeros in the adverts?
I'm thinking of a 3 or 5 door, I want reasonable performance and economy - years ago I had a 9000 2.3 T16 (200bhp I think?) which went well and turned in around 30mpg. Will I be looking at similar performance/economy?
Are the 900i worth looking at ? How do they compare?
What do I need to watch out for? How little can I get away with spending on a good one?
My inclination is an LPT assuming that it will give decent performance and good economy and presumably be less stressed than a full blown turbo?
Engines:
- 2.0 8v (-89)
- 2.0 8v turbo (-89) (160bhp?)
- 2.0 16v (85-)
- 2.0 16v LPT (90ish-) (145bhp)
- 2.0 16v turbo (85-) (175/185bhp)
The 8v/16v turbos are the ones to have. The 8v cars have their fans, but you really want either an FPT or an LPT. Very easy to turn an LPT into an FPR with either the correct intercooler/APC boost control system (cheap to get the bits) or by even cheaper/less elegant methods. They're very tuneable, 200bhp easily done with boost tweaks, exhaust, and an FMIC. The LPT doesn't really have the push in the back of the FPT and is really suited to the convertible IMHO. It's a good one to look out for as less likely to have been thrashed and easy to tune.
Body styles - all engines available in 2/4 door (notchback cars), 3/5 door (hatchbacks), and the convertible. 2 door cars drive the best due to being less flexible, but the classic look is the 3 door or convertible.
2/3 doors and convertibles available with "aero" kit - grey plastic trim on lower half of car. In Sweden/Europe, the Aero cars were 16v turbos (T16) with lowered suspension and the Aero kit. In the UK they were called "Turbo 16S" (or T16S) due to "Aero" being a GM registered trademark - when the LPT came out in 1990 GM had bought a large stake in Saab and allowed it's use for the LPT (so bizarrely only the LPT known officially as "Aero" in this country - if you are buying a "Aero 16v Turbo" it may not be a full pressure turbo - look for a turbo boost guage in the instrument cluster). In the US the Aero was known as the SPG.
Special editions - there were many but the interesting ones were the Carlsson (red white or black with whaletail spoiler, airflow bodykit and 185bhp), and the Ruby (last of the line L-reg in Ruby red, no bodykit, nice leather/wool seats, 185bhp).
Performance - they're not frantically quick off the line - FPT does 0-60 in 8 or so seconds - but that's only half the story. In gear/through the gears they are still quick 20-30 years on and will surprise a lot of modern machinery through the power delivery. They drive very nicely, crisp handling out of the box, speak to 900T-R to really get a good fast road setup.
Reliability - very solid well built cars. Of course the newest one is 15 years old and so need a bit of fettling. Drive it regularly, keep it well servicied (Mobil 1 every 6k) and get friendly with a good specialist and it needn't cost huge amounts (don't look at what I've spent on mine in the last 2 years though!
) Do look out for rust - door bottoms, bonnet edges, rear wheelarches, boot floor, front crossmembers, and driveshaft tunnels. If looked after shouldn't be bad though.Economy wise, I average 26mpg with mixed driving (mostly local or thrashes), well over 30 on a motorway run though.
As a rough guide - it will handle better than a 9000 but is harder to get up to the same power as the equivalent 9000. It's easy to get to 200bhp, with a bit of work you can see a reliable 240-250, and up to 300 is possible but you will need gearboxes as service items.
What to watch out for - apart from rust, just get one that's been looked after, regular oil changes, make sure there's no pinion whine from the gearbox or popping out of gear...
You can pick up non-turbos for next to nothing, or pretty good cars for £2k or so. Or there's a guy doing a nut and bolt restore on a T16S convertible "Monte Carlo" edition for £13k
I absolutely love mine, I can't see me ever selling it
PS - check the topic in here for "recommended garages"
Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Tuesday 1st September 01:52
Thanks - that's very useful.
Care to have a guestimate as to the economy of the LPT vs FPT? I'm happy with the performance being overtaking rather than traffic light races. Far more useful real world. My only problem with the 9000 was the handling (swapped it for a subaru SVX)
I'm in North Yorks - Harrogate/Ripon area. I would have saved a fair bit on some of your expenses - my brother used to do mobile A/C (he's now got a snap-on franchise) so all the kit to sort A/C and trade supplier stuff is sitting in my parents garage.
I must say, yours does look very good.
Care to have a guestimate as to the economy of the LPT vs FPT? I'm happy with the performance being overtaking rather than traffic light races. Far more useful real world. My only problem with the 9000 was the handling (swapped it for a subaru SVX)
I'm in North Yorks - Harrogate/Ripon area. I would have saved a fair bit on some of your expenses - my brother used to do mobile A/C (he's now got a snap-on franchise) so all the kit to sort A/C and trade supplier stuff is sitting in my parents garage.
I must say, yours does look very good.
Edited by TooLateForAName on Tuesday 1st September 09:49
I`ve got an LPT but with a `chargecooler` from Abbott Racing. Gives more oomph, but the delivery is not as ON/OFF as with an FPT, so gearbox should last well....
I get 32+ on longer drives no problem.
The Abbott stuff is very expensive ( was on my car when purchased) but a similar intercooler setup is not difficult & will give some more horses. There are a couple of spots in Yorks - try Aeromotive in Batley - have a good reputation, as does 'Classic 900' in Hull.
I`d avoid travelling south of Watford, as it appears some people pay prices down there which actually make me laugh out loud. And I`m not even a Yorkshireman.
I get 32+ on longer drives no problem.
The Abbott stuff is very expensive ( was on my car when purchased) but a similar intercooler setup is not difficult & will give some more horses. There are a couple of spots in Yorks - try Aeromotive in Batley - have a good reputation, as does 'Classic 900' in Hull.
I`d avoid travelling south of Watford, as it appears some people pay prices down there which actually make me laugh out loud. And I`m not even a Yorkshireman.
Not surprisingly LPT and FPT give the same fuel economy when on cruise as the engine is identical. The only difference is the amount of boost being run when giving it welly.
To add to NCOT's summary, the turbo was changed from the Garrett T3 to a Mitsubishi TE-05 around 90/91. The Mitsu is much more responsive but doesn't have quite the ultimate power capability of the T3. 240 plays 250 though to achieve those both turbos will be pushed to the limit. All LPTs will have the Mitsubishi unit.
The 16v turbos switched from Bosch LH to Lusas around 88/89. No real difference as both are equally crude, with a distributer providing the timing control. Lucas does appear to be slightly more economical.
Saab also used three different types of gear ratios, designated Type 6, 7 or 8. Box internals are the same, the only difference is the primary drive into the box. The type is displayed on the front of the gearbox housing with a three digit number xx6, xx7 or xx8. Alternatively the engine and road speed can be used. Type 6s run 70mph at 3000rpm, the 8s 81mph at the same speed and the 7s inbetween.
8s are the rarest, and generally sought after though are predominantly on the earlier cars. LPTs are all Type 6 IIRC. Type 8s with a hybrid Mitsubishi unit provides a very nice vehicle to drive. Relaxed cruising, boost builds from below 2000rpm yet has the potential for 300+bhp with the correct supporting mods.
To add to NCOT's summary, the turbo was changed from the Garrett T3 to a Mitsubishi TE-05 around 90/91. The Mitsu is much more responsive but doesn't have quite the ultimate power capability of the T3. 240 plays 250 though to achieve those both turbos will be pushed to the limit. All LPTs will have the Mitsubishi unit.
The 16v turbos switched from Bosch LH to Lusas around 88/89. No real difference as both are equally crude, with a distributer providing the timing control. Lucas does appear to be slightly more economical.
Saab also used three different types of gear ratios, designated Type 6, 7 or 8. Box internals are the same, the only difference is the primary drive into the box. The type is displayed on the front of the gearbox housing with a three digit number xx6, xx7 or xx8. Alternatively the engine and road speed can be used. Type 6s run 70mph at 3000rpm, the 8s 81mph at the same speed and the 7s inbetween.
8s are the rarest, and generally sought after though are predominantly on the earlier cars. LPTs are all Type 6 IIRC. Type 8s with a hybrid Mitsubishi unit provides a very nice vehicle to drive. Relaxed cruising, boost builds from below 2000rpm yet has the potential for 300+bhp with the correct supporting mods.
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