Saab 9-3 and fitting an APC

[Boozy]

Hi there,
So I need to hook up my APC to my currently LPT 9-3, so, the hoses go in this order

W to the wastegate
C to the compressor
and R to the intake of the turbo

does anyone have any pics of this so I have an idiots guide of how to do this OR failing that, where I should look if I'm stood in front of the engine looking in

thanks! really close to having a faster car!

[NiceCupOfTea]

I'm confused - 9-3s always ran on Trionic engine management. Can't see any way you could combine Trionic and APC (or indeed why you would want to!).

What year is your car? If it's a 9-3lpt (98-03) you need to be looking at a remap, will easily get you from 150bhp to 220 or so without any drama.

[Boozy]

NiceCupOfTea said:

I'm confused - 9-3s always ran on Trionic engine management. Can't see any way you could combine Trionic and APC (or indeed why you would want to!).

What year is your car? If it's a 9-3lpt (98-03) you need to be looking at a remap, will easily get you from 150bhp to 220 or so without any drama.

Hiya, it's a 2000, so have the remapped ECU and have swapped that out, just need to install the APC, I have the red top engine, the LPT doesn't have an APC, hence the low pressure

[NiceCupOfTea]

So you want to swap out the Trionic for APC? There will be an awful lot more to it than just swapping the Trionic ECU for an APC.

The APC is basically an analogue electronic box that controls boost dependant on throttle position, knock, revs, and a few other things that I can't remember at the moment. It doesn't have any control over ignition timing or fuelling unlike more modern solutions - but it was revolutionary for the early 80s.

9000s used APC and Direct Ignition which might be retrofittable to a 9-3.

Trionic is a far more complex solution that Saab brought in in the mid-90s for 9000s, 9-5s, ng900s, and 9-3s. It's actually a very good system and controls fuelling and ignition in addition to just the boost levels.

There is mapping software that you can get for it (T5Suite) and a lot of the c900 boys are fitting Trionic to their cars rather than the usual MegaSquirt etc.

I don't know if a simple MBC can be used on LPT 9-3s (I think it can) but the best solution is to go for one of the off the shelf maps from people like MapTun, Speedparts, etc.

If you have already Stage 1'd then look towards Stage 2

West Midlands Saab said:

Saab 9-3 2.0t M98-00 (154bhp/219Nm)
Stage One upgrade (+73bhp/+127Nm) T5
£poa
Stage Two upgrade (+75bhp/+135Nm) T5
£poa
Stage Three upgrade (+91bhp/+139Nm)
£poa

They use Speedparts stuff (see here

http://www.elkparts.com/saab-93-m9802/performance-...

£500 for 150bhp - 225bhp seems OK to me

If you want to learn more about APC then there is more than you could ever want to know on www.900aero.com - also you might want to ask in the 9-3 section on www.saabcentral.com

[Boozy]

Maybe I haven't explained meself too well! what I've bought is essentially the stage one upgrade, upgraded ECU, APC from the T5 unit I believe (needs wiring to the loom in the bonnet, happy with that) it's the mod that I read about on UKSaabs, however, as part of upgrading the APC, you need to connect the W, C and R to the engine, I was wondering if you or anyone had pics or simple instructions on where to connect the hoses to, I understand it's wastegate, compressor and return but if anyone knows where they are that'd be great

thanks!

[NiceCupOfTea]

Are you sure you mean APC? As far as I know there has never been any mix/match APC/Trionic system on any Saab.

Can you provide a link the the UKS thread?

ETA:

Do you mean these ones?

http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=...
http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=32&t...

Do you mean the APC solenoid? ie, a small circular piece of plastic with 3 hose ports and a 2 pin socket? Not a red or black box about 6 inches square by 2 inches thick?

Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Saturday 21st February 15:01

[Boozy]

NiceCupOfTea said:

Are you sure you mean APC? As far as I know there has never been any mix/match APC/Trionic system on any Saab.

Can you provide a link the the UKS thread?

ETA:

Do you mean these ones?

http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=...
http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=32&t...

Do you mean the APC solenoid? ie, a small circular piece of plastic with 3 hose ports and a 2 pin socket? Not a red or black box about 6 inches square by 2 inches thick?

Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Saturday 21st February 15:01

yes sir! that's the one! sorry for being thick

[NiceCupOfTea]

No problem - I had snow blindness as I've been playing with the APC on my car for the last couple of days!

Can you read the part number off it? I've just been looking at my electronic parts catalogue to see if I can see the routing of the pipes, but it's not that easy. Do you have a workshop manual?

ETA:

Looking in the workshop manual for my c900 (APC solenoid has a similar application):

"Port C is the pressure line from the turbo compressor (true manifold pressure), W is the pressure line to the wastegate, and R is a bleed or return line back to the turbo compressor"

If your turbo has a separate wastegate there should be a connection for the hose to W. There should be two ports on the turbo itself but I don't know which is C and which is R. Markings on the turbo?

Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Saturday 21st February 15:17

[Boozy]

Ah ha! no work manuals I'm afraid, bought the Haynes manual but that's not that much cop, I'll keep digging, sorry for the confusion!

[NiceCupOfTea]

This is from a 9000 as for some reason I can only find diesel stuff in the 9-3 section - but it gives you some sort of idea where the hoses go I think...

[Boozy]

thank you sir!!!!!

[NiceCupOfTea]

No problems, good luck & enjoy the boost!