looking to venture into the saab market
Discussion
Guys and Gals, I'm after a bit of advice.
Firstly, I know absolutly nothing about saab's so please go gently.
With the arrival of a little nipper, I'm thinking about changing my daily hack from an audi a3 to an estate car. Now, having only ever owned vw/audi my natural instinct was to buy another audi however this was until I saw what you could get for your money from saab. This has got me thinking, with approx 6-7k to spend what could I get?
So, advise please, what do I look for? My daily commute is a total of 60 miles(there and back) predominatly A road and M4 I'm after something pretty economic however am used to circa 35 mpg so anything around that figure will be ok.
What is the build quality like - am I going to be disappointed coming from audi?
what is the reliability like - is servicing going to be a nightmare?
are certain models better than others, i.e sport suspension?
Any other hints/tips would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers all
Firstly, I know absolutly nothing about saab's so please go gently.
With the arrival of a little nipper, I'm thinking about changing my daily hack from an audi a3 to an estate car. Now, having only ever owned vw/audi my natural instinct was to buy another audi however this was until I saw what you could get for your money from saab. This has got me thinking, with approx 6-7k to spend what could I get?
So, advise please, what do I look for? My daily commute is a total of 60 miles(there and back) predominatly A road and M4 I'm after something pretty economic however am used to circa 35 mpg so anything around that figure will be ok.
What is the build quality like - am I going to be disappointed coming from audi?
what is the reliability like - is servicing going to be a nightmare?
are certain models better than others, i.e sport suspension?
Any other hints/tips would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers all
scooters said:
This has got me thinking, with approx 6-7k to spend what could I get?
At that price, the world would be your oyster concerning 9-5 Estates - although I'd be tempted to spend a little less than that - most of the upgrades that matter had been done for the 2002 facelift, and given the current climate you will lose nearly everything you invest in a few short years. 
Look what tidy early (1998-2000) examples go for and you'll see. The flipside is that you get stonking VFM as long as you are not paying inflated dealer forecourt prices. There should be a fair bit of room for haggling when buying from a main dealer or larger specialist!scooters said:
What is the build quality like - am I going to be disappointed coming from audi?
Slightly maybe but in fairness, you'll be having that problem with anymainstreamish car coming from an Audi. They're a cut above the usual fodder though (including the current 9-3 sadly), nice and solid build, clear and thoughtful ergonomics.scooters said:
what is the reliability like - is servicing going to be a nightmare?
Shouldn't be, but as always with this sort of exec motors there's a fair bit of potential for things to go wrong. Main issue on the 9-5 is black sludge in the engine (caused by low-tension piston rings and a PCV system that can't cope and has been redesigned/recalled several times. Check if the PCV system is the latest version and oil changes have been performed on schedule and with a high quality lubricant. The smaller GT17 turbos on the low pressure models have a reasonably high failure rate too. Expect the Saab Information Display (SID) to have lost a few pixels unless it's been repaired/replaced already.
scooters said:
are certain models better than others, i.e sport suspension?
Vectors and Aeros should have sports suspension which is well, a bit less wallowy than the standard issue settings but still a long way from the roack hard optional sports suspensions on German motors. Also, quiter a few examples will by now have had some aftermarket attention to tighten things up a bit.Any other hints/tips would be greatly appreciated.
To add to what Ole 900 has had to say:
They'll take intergalactic milages - I've just sold my 2002 Aero Estate with 156k up, which was still on original clutch, exhaust and discs. A friend of mine now has it, and he's put another 5k on it already with nary a problem.
Build quality - perceptual one this - the chances of anything breaking / not working on a 9-5 are pretty slim indeed, but no the grab-handles aren't damned, and some of the buttons go "click" instead of "squidge"... Set against that are the most comfortable seats known to man (there's a reason chiropractors and osteopaths recommend Saabs for those with back / leg problems) which I still miss every day.
Performance - assuming you go for an Aero (and you'd be mad not to given the prices) then you're getting 250bhp and 400NM of torque, yet will still return 35-36mpg on a run, and if handled well, 30 around town on a manual, a little less on an auto - find another car from BMW / Audi / Merc which delivers the same performance (particularly the overtaking urge) and economy.... you won't because there isn't one! The only way to get similar performance is with the bigger engined Germans, which has immediate implications for economy, tax and so on.
Maintenance - 12k / 12months - find a decent independant and it's about £180 for a small, £260 for a large, hardly going to break the bank. The Aero engines are chain driven, and the chains should last well over 150k, so no nasty belt services to watch out for. Even on the Aeros, tyres are still only 17-inch and reasonably priced (around £80-90 a corner if you go with something sensible), and brake pads should last 20-30k on a manual, a little less on an auto.
On something like this - http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/768634.htm - you're basically getting the kitchen sink:
250bhp
Xenons
Heated front and rear seats
CD changer / oodles of speakers
Cruise
Dual-zone Climate
Leccy memory seats
Parking sensors
All for less than £5k....
For a little over your budget, you could go with a 2-year old facelift car - http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/746852.htm - 260bhp, and all the trimmings. I'm sure a little assault and battery could bring that down to within your budget, but it will continue to lose money so unless you plan on keeping it for a few years, it may be worth spending a little less as was advised earlier.
Finally, in terms of being a family wagon, they're awesome - you have the confidence of 5-star carsh protection, easy overtaking and cruising ability, plus oddles of space for the inevitable paraphenalia.
Hope that helps a bit.
They'll take intergalactic milages - I've just sold my 2002 Aero Estate with 156k up, which was still on original clutch, exhaust and discs. A friend of mine now has it, and he's put another 5k on it already with nary a problem.
Build quality - perceptual one this - the chances of anything breaking / not working on a 9-5 are pretty slim indeed, but no the grab-handles aren't damned, and some of the buttons go "click" instead of "squidge"... Set against that are the most comfortable seats known to man (there's a reason chiropractors and osteopaths recommend Saabs for those with back / leg problems) which I still miss every day.
Performance - assuming you go for an Aero (and you'd be mad not to given the prices) then you're getting 250bhp and 400NM of torque, yet will still return 35-36mpg on a run, and if handled well, 30 around town on a manual, a little less on an auto - find another car from BMW / Audi / Merc which delivers the same performance (particularly the overtaking urge) and economy.... you won't because there isn't one! The only way to get similar performance is with the bigger engined Germans, which has immediate implications for economy, tax and so on.
Maintenance - 12k / 12months - find a decent independant and it's about £180 for a small, £260 for a large, hardly going to break the bank. The Aero engines are chain driven, and the chains should last well over 150k, so no nasty belt services to watch out for. Even on the Aeros, tyres are still only 17-inch and reasonably priced (around £80-90 a corner if you go with something sensible), and brake pads should last 20-30k on a manual, a little less on an auto.
On something like this - http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/768634.htm - you're basically getting the kitchen sink:
250bhp
Xenons
Heated front and rear seats
CD changer / oodles of speakers
Cruise
Dual-zone Climate
Leccy memory seats
Parking sensors
All for less than £5k....
For a little over your budget, you could go with a 2-year old facelift car - http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/746852.htm - 260bhp, and all the trimmings. I'm sure a little assault and battery could bring that down to within your budget, but it will continue to lose money so unless you plan on keeping it for a few years, it may be worth spending a little less as was advised earlier.
Finally, in terms of being a family wagon, they're awesome - you have the confidence of 5-star carsh protection, easy overtaking and cruising ability, plus oddles of space for the inevitable paraphenalia.
Hope that helps a bit.
I went from an Audi 3.7 A8 to a Saab 9-5 2.3LPT Estate. T date I've done over 185k miles in the Saab. Points:-
1) It has been much more reliable than the Audi
2) Servicing has been approx 50% of the cost of the Audi
3) It's nearly as comfortable
4) Heating/Ventillation is better in the Saab
I often do 500 miles in a day and get out of Saab just as fresh as I did in the Audi
If I was buying another I'd get an Aero
davidy
1) It has been much more reliable than the Audi
2) Servicing has been approx 50% of the cost of the Audi
3) It's nearly as comfortable
4) Heating/Ventillation is better in the Saab
I often do 500 miles in a day and get out of Saab just as fresh as I did in the Audi
If I was buying another I'd get an Aero
davidy
are xenons std on aero? If so, what date?
Also whats the diff with the Arc/Vector specs? The missus is a bit accident prone so as much as i like a faster car, the insurance isnt cheap (£850 with £800 excess on a aero 03, would be £500 on my own...)
Also whats the diff with the Arc/Vector specs? The missus is a bit accident prone so as much as i like a faster car, the insurance isnt cheap (£850 with £800 excess on a aero 03, would be £500 on my own...)
Edited by cheeky_chops on Thursday 13th November 15:51
Edited by cheeky_chops on Thursday 13th November 16:18
The optional sat-nav on the 9-5s isn't much cop. Its not much of a selling point because you can't upgrade the disc and modern tom-toms/garmins are streets ahead. -Don't pay any more in other words.
The heated/fan cooled seats are feckin' ace though.
If you don't get an Aero you'll probably regret it in time. -Or in fact the first time you're in a hurry and want to overtake a stream of cars. The Aero is a great overtaking beastie.
The heated/fan cooled seats are feckin' ace though.
If you don't get an Aero you'll probably regret it in time. -Or in fact the first time you're in a hurry and want to overtake a stream of cars. The Aero is a great overtaking beastie.
i already have a overtaking beast in the form of a well modded vxr220! 
I know what you mean about the toys - our honda accord is exec spec so pretty well kitted and i would be kicking myself if i went lower. What does worry me is the mpg in real world (not that 30+ is too bad) - i have just remembered I borrowed a 95 aero estate from work (18 months ago, 06 plate?) with auto and "flappy paddles" on the wheel, god, it was awful and drank the juice on kickdown. Changed jobs since then so mpg not an issue really now...
I know what you mean about the toys - our honda accord is exec spec so pretty well kitted and i would be kicking myself if i went lower. What does worry me is the mpg in real world (not that 30+ is too bad) - i have just remembered I borrowed a 95 aero estate from work (18 months ago, 06 plate?) with auto and "flappy paddles" on the wheel, god, it was awful and drank the juice on kickdown. Changed jobs since then so mpg not an issue really now...
cheeky_chops said:
What does worry me is the mpg in real world (not that 30+ is too bad) - i have just remembered I borrowed a 95 aero estate from work (18 months ago, 06 plate?) with auto and "flappy paddles" on the wheel, god, it was awful and drank the juice on kickdown.
Real world mpg is fine for it's size/weight/performance.My 9-5 Aero auto averages 26-27 for a daily commute within the M25 boundary, and 30+ is easy on a run (mpg was on a par with my ex's Ford Focus 2.0 auto..;))
Yes it would drink the juice using kickdown....but, then you don't really need to use kickdown, it's got sooooo much chuffin torque you rarely have need for it, usually a flick into Sport mode and a light prod is more than sufficent usually. Manual mode is useful as well.
If you are coming from a Honda the driving techinques for a Saab are completely the opposite.....which is why I can't stand driving Honda's.....
Recently bought and 95 ARC 2.3t (small t) for a long commute. 40 odd on the trip computer on a 150 mile motorway run. Recent trip around Wales and 30 odd mpg. Auto and with the flappy things. I don't bother with them (flappy things) myself. I have another for hooning, this is the armchair for work and it is. Second hand of course and all bits worked and still does. It did not have all the bells and whistles but it is well screwed together and since buying (last March) nothing has needed attention.
Personally I wasn't worried if it was Aero or not, it (the ARC) was available when I was looking and fitted the bill. I did buy from an independent who was recommended so probably paid a tad over the odds but had piece of mind that it was sound.
Personally I wasn't worried if it was Aero or not, it (the ARC) was available when I was looking and fitted the bill. I did buy from an independent who was recommended so probably paid a tad over the odds but had piece of mind that it was sound.
aeropilot said:
If you are coming from a Honda the driving techinques for a Saab are completely the opposite.....which is why I can't stand driving Honda's.....
Tell me about it - i thought the honda vtec would be good fun, but boy it is a PITA. Think you can nip out on the motorway? Think again - that TDi will sail past unless you dump it into 3rd!! Much prefer the turbo torque, but i am spoilt with 300lb/ft in a 920kg car Back on track, might pop into Birmingham to test a few out.
Anyone any experience of the newer 06> model? Cheap aero on AT (06 plate for <£7k) but i guess its very very high mileage
cheeky_chops said:
are xenons std on aero? If so, what date?
Also whats the diff with the Arc/Vector specs? The missus is a bit accident prone so as much as i like a faster car, the insurance isnt cheap (£850 with £800 excess on a aero 03, would be £500 on my own...)
Xenons from early 2002, just after the first facelift with newer integrated grille, different bumpers - the very first batch of Aeros had fairly poverty spec (mine was a 51 plate, one of the very first facelifts, but only leather, no heated or leccy seats, no xenons etc). Just after that Saab realised their mistake and threw the book at the car - so they then got everything as standard. Then around 2003ish they pulled out all the spec again... so they got xenons, but no leccy heatedness. Then just for fun.... with the semi-faclift new bumpers around 03/04 they bunged all the spec back in again..... unfortunately Saab have a nasty habit of doing this!Also whats the diff with the Arc/Vector specs? The missus is a bit accident prone so as much as i like a faster car, the insurance isnt cheap (£850 with £800 excess on a aero 03, would be £500 on my own...)
In a nutshell the 9-5 range went as follows
Linear - Poverty, cloth seats, only small engines. 16" alloys if you're lucky, some still have steel wheels! - 2.0t, 2.2tid
Arc - "Luxury" so wood dash, comfort full leather seats. 16" Alloys - 2.0t, 2.2TiD, 2.3t
Vector - Same price as Arc, but "sports" suspension, half-leather sports seats, silver dash. Small and middle engines. "Airflow bodykit" 17" Alloys - 2.0t, 2.2TiD, 2.3t, 3.0V6 TiD
Aero - Full leather Sports seats, even more sporty suspension, silver dash, all the trimmings, leccy heatedness all over the place. Airflow bodykit, 17" alloys. Only engine is the 2.3T HOT.
Just to confuse, there was also another 2.3"T" engine, which is not to be mistaken for the 2.3T HOT - it had around 200bhp for the Arc and Vector, not the 250bhp of the Aero version. Basically if you want the latter output, the ONLY car it appears in is the Aero, so a 2.3t or 2.3T in an Arc or Vector is somewhere between 185-200ish depending on year.
cheers Red 
Sounds abit complicated! I was trying to compare pics of diff cars on AT to work out what changes/when - they are quite subtle. Will have to post up pics of what i am intereted in.
edit i keep looking at the one from above... http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/768634.htm
Also here is a linky to 06 on AT http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/SAAB...
Sounds abit complicated! I was trying to compare pics of diff cars on AT to work out what changes/when - they are quite subtle. Will have to post up pics of what i am intereted in.
edit i keep looking at the one from above... http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/768634.htm
Also here is a linky to 06 on AT http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/SAAB...
Edited by cheeky_chops on Friday 14th November 10:57
Righty, well in a nutshell, the two you have linked are as follows:
PH One -
Note the spherical blobs in the headlamps - they're xenons. Also confirms it being a "facelift" model, as the grille is integrated into the front bumper, whereas earlier cars the grille was an entirely separate chromed thingie.
Dash - silver, button sticking out of RH stalk confirms cruise, rockers at base of centre console are for heated seats.
Button on seat for seat memory confirms leccy seats.
The AT one:
Dame Edna look from the new headlights.... curious looking beast. This was the second full facelift in the 9-5s life.
Newer interior - note the two tone seats.
Later dash and wheel design - they basically cobbled together a new design with the wheel from the 9-3, and various dash bits from all over the place. Some people feel this makes it more coherent, those coming from earlier 9-5s found it a step backwards: what used to be a single button prod became the turn of a dial, what used to be neatly integrated now felt like a bunch of disparate units just randomly bolted into the dash. IMHO, given the silver dash of this car, it really does feel like a bunch of cheap units just slapped into it.
So really you pay's your money, you takes your choice. For me, I'd go with the older car - cheaper to buy, most likely cheaper to tax, and has the more pleasant ambience about it, whilst only really giving away 10bhp to the newer one... That's not to say the newer one isn't a bargain, but the advert doesn't state milage which is worrying. Given that both would have been around £30k new, it really is frightening depreciation, and a damned good reason to pick one up now. Assuming you run it for two or three years, then £4k on the black one is truly economic motoring....
Hope that helps a bit. I am now going to go outside and shoot myself for being a Saab nerd.... all the more worrying considering I don't currently own one! (Though I know plenty of others who do!)
PH One -
Note the spherical blobs in the headlamps - they're xenons. Also confirms it being a "facelift" model, as the grille is integrated into the front bumper, whereas earlier cars the grille was an entirely separate chromed thingie.
Dash - silver, button sticking out of RH stalk confirms cruise, rockers at base of centre console are for heated seats.
Button on seat for seat memory confirms leccy seats.
The AT one:
Dame Edna look from the new headlights.... curious looking beast. This was the second full facelift in the 9-5s life.
Newer interior - note the two tone seats.
Later dash and wheel design - they basically cobbled together a new design with the wheel from the 9-3, and various dash bits from all over the place. Some people feel this makes it more coherent, those coming from earlier 9-5s found it a step backwards: what used to be a single button prod became the turn of a dial, what used to be neatly integrated now felt like a bunch of disparate units just randomly bolted into the dash. IMHO, given the silver dash of this car, it really does feel like a bunch of cheap units just slapped into it.
So really you pay's your money, you takes your choice. For me, I'd go with the older car - cheaper to buy, most likely cheaper to tax, and has the more pleasant ambience about it, whilst only really giving away 10bhp to the newer one... That's not to say the newer one isn't a bargain, but the advert doesn't state milage which is worrying. Given that both would have been around £30k new, it really is frightening depreciation, and a damned good reason to pick one up now. Assuming you run it for two or three years, then £4k on the black one is truly economic motoring....
Hope that helps a bit. I am now going to go outside and shoot myself for being a Saab nerd.... all the more worrying considering I don't currently own one! (Though I know plenty of others who do!)
te after 5 minutes... You cant argue with the value, £29k list!
Hmm, owner expectations are sometimes weird to compare to actual quality across the marques - I'd rate the BMW 5-series as the finest of the bunch by some margin, and it doesn't do too well in the JD Power statistics. OTOH the Honda Jazz has won the most important Dutch customer satisfaction award, and I can't for the life of me understand why people would pay so much money for such a dull little car...
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 14th November 13:15
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