living in germany

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DangerousMike

Original Poster:

11,327 posts

199 months

Sunday 8th August 2010
quotequote all
Hi all,

I have the possibility that i may be able to take a job in Germany, based in Saarbrucken.

I would like very much to hear expats' experiences of living in germany. Looking at rental places, the rent seems very cheap compared to the UK. What are the costs of motoring like?

My partner and I have minimal German... do you think it would be a big problem for her to find a job?

any other thoughts or comments would be really appreciate too.

mick5994

68 posts

183 months

Sunday 8th August 2010
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Hi Mike

I've lived in Germany for the last 9 1/2 years but I'm in the forces which have almost our own community that few venture out of. However I'm not looking forward to returning to the UK when the time comes.

The people in Germany tend to be extremely friendly and help when they can, most towns, away from major cities, are like stepping back in time by about 15-20 years. Each have their own greengrocers, butchers...etc. The communities seem to be a lot closer knit too.

The cost of motoring isnt much disimilar to the UK to be honest. The cost of fuel is approx 1.52 euros a litre, but you dont pay road tax. You will have to pick up LHD lights for your car though which dependant on car can be quite expensive, their tests are again very similar to our own beloved MOT, but if you are in the country for over 60 days (not checked for a few years now, so may have changed) you have to take their tests and register your vehicle with them. Prices of labour and goods are slightly more expensive than the UK too.

As for your partener finding a job with very little knowledge of German, this she may find difficult to do, not impossible though. A little german goes a long way, if you try to talk german you will usually be restpected by them for trying and find out that they actually speak very good English and will try to help you along. I'm not sure how the Tax side of things work though.

Its a wonderful place to live and as already said I'll be sad to leave it in the next couple of years, but needs must.

Sorry no idea about the price of housing/renting.

If you need help with anything feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to find out things for you before you take the plunge.

JMGS4

8,772 posts

277 months

Monday 9th August 2010
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A few corrections to Micks posting, as he's in the forces and has certain advantages that others here do not have.
1a) the road tax is depending on your Swept volume and soon on the CO² exhaust gasses. Everyone apart from forces pays it. For my Porsche I pay around €400 p.a., for a diesel Golf I pay around the same.
1b) Insurance for newbies to germany can be VERY expensive so ensure you have a good covering note from your old GB insurance stating exactly how long you are accident free (not just that you've earned x% NCB)to ensure you get some rebate. Normally all people start with 150%(of standard premium), with more experience you can get this reduced after many clean years to around 45%. Insurance also depends on mileages driven, garaging, property owner etc, and buy insurance from an insurance dealer NOT an insurance agent to get the best deals (ie if they've a named insurance company on their letterhead they're not independant)
1c) TüV is VERY strict, over 160 different individual check points and now includes the old ASU (Exhaust gas checks) and is done by government employees who may visit your local approved dealers but will not visit the smaller shops, therfore you might have to take it to them. Anything out of the ordinary carwise, they'll put on their microscope glasses and really put you through it. You might even have to have an individual approval if you've something like a TVR which can cost an arm and a leg....
2) within 12 months of arrival you'll have to get a german license: and you have to carry your car docs and license and ID always
3) Saarbrücken is still very much under the american forces influence so it might be easier to find a job for your wife as more american is spoken.. You'll also have the advantage of the borders to France (different shops) and Luxembourg (much cheaper fuel)
4) You might expect rent (for 100m² flat in good condition) to be between €1000 and 1500 per month. If you stay out in the sticks it could be cheaper.
5) Germany functions only with paperwork, so anything you have from GB on paper can help, whether it be bank approvals, job references, qualifications etc... especially ensure your wife has a complete cv with all references (i.e. no gaps) on paper (german employers are not allowed to ask previous employers for a reference so ensure you have these on paper)
6) cost of living, slightly cheaper than in UK, especially food quality (you can't buy that awful white GB bread here thank goodness, nothing unusual for a good baker here to have 20 different types of bread; the Germans know feck all about fish, buy that over the border in France)
7) Germany is NOT overfamiliar as is GB or USA. You cannot call someone by their christian name without first being invited to do so. It is ALWAYS Herr or Frau (or Title) soandso and you address them in the second person plural (Sie), until such time as you're on first names. DO NOT initiate it as this is found insulting, you will be invited by them to call them by their first names...Youngsters are less uptight about this....
8) If something is not right you are expected to complain. Do not do the typically British shrugshoulders and walk away. If you do not complain in a civil manner how can they know that something is wrong....
9) As Mick said you'll find the majority of germans are only to glad to help, try speaking german (even badly) and they'll help out. Otherwise mostly very cheerful, really enjoy beer wine and soccer (can't understand why), do not understand any other sports unless tehy happen to do it in the village you live in...
10) join a club (sports, choir, hunting, riding, walking) that's the fastest way to integrate, as everything revolves around clubs (vereine) here, and you'll get to know people with the same interests very fast.

Anything more? just PM me.... I've been here 37 years now so I do know ze chermanns a bit!

RainerM

827 posts

238 months

Monday 9th August 2010
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Well said and absolutely right, John :-))

Rainer-CH

dcb

5,911 posts

272 months

Monday 9th August 2010
quotequote all
JMGS4 said:
1b) Insurance for newbies to germany can be VERY expensive so ensure you have a good covering note from your old GB insurance stating exactly how long you are accident free (not just that you've earned x% NCB)to ensure you get some rebate.
Am I correct in thinking most German insurance companies still run NCB
up to 22 years or so ?

This seems much more fair than the UK system which runs only
up to 9 years or so.

JMGS4 said:
Luxembourg (much cheaper fuel)
and booze, fags and tobacco.

JMGS4 said:
5) Germany functions only with paperwork,
+1 - they love paperwork.

JMGS4 said:
6) cost of living, slightly cheaper than in UK, especially food quality
+1 Food quality generally much better.

JMGS4 said:
7) Germany is NOT overfamiliar as is GB or USA. You cannot call someone by their christian name without first being invited to do so. It is ALWAYS Herr or Frau (or Title) soandso and you address them in the second person plural (Sie), until such time as you're on first names. DO NOT initiate it as this is found insulting, you will be invited by them to call them by their first names...Youngsters are less uptight about this....
Solid advice. Being a German is a serious business (at least in
public) and getting past the Sie level onto the Du level is a big step.

No such distinction in English, of course.

DangerousMike

Original Poster:

11,327 posts

199 months

Monday 9th August 2010
quotequote all
thanks very much for all of the info so far chaps...

Just one question right now - what do you think a reasonable monthly budget is for a couple living in a 2 bedroom apartment... I really have no idea whether it'd be substantially cheaper to live there or not and am a bit concerned that it would be a bit difficult going from two salaries to one...

JMGS4

8,772 posts

277 months

Tuesday 10th August 2010
quotequote all
DangerousMike said:
thanks very much for all of the info so far chaps...
Just one question right now - what do you think a reasonable monthly budget is for a couple living in a 2 bedroom apartment... I really have no idea whether it'd be substantially cheaper to live there or not and am a bit concerned that it would be a bit difficult going from two salaries to one...
My bank reckons about €1300,- per month and person as a minimum, and thats excluding rent...
just some figures I'd attempt to start with
Food (without eating out) ca 500,- (buying supermarket food)
Insurances 200,-
heating/lighting 150,-
rent p P 700,-
Car costs depend on mileage
pension......
Health ins (15.5% of gross income)
Tax depends on status ca 30-35% of gross income
it mounts up quick.......
If you're not clearing €5k a month after tax and health you'll be pushed on one salary., as you do want something left as play money don't you?!



DangerousMike

Original Poster:

11,327 posts

199 months

Tuesday 10th August 2010
quotequote all
the potential job (waiting to hear if I will be offered it...) is a post-doc position at a research institute... so the salary is pretty low. We could survive (and I emphasise survive, rather than live) just about here on one salary but it'd be tough. Trying to do the same abroad would be even worse as obviously you need some money left over to visit home, and ideally make the most of the good location and travel round Europe a bit. when I have looked at the salary calculators (the job seems to paid from some scale or other called TVoD) it seems that the tax is about 40-45% (because we're not married - does living together get you a lower tax rate?)... which is going to make it very hard. hmmm...

JMGS4

8,772 posts

277 months

Tuesday 10th August 2010
quotequote all
If post-doc position I'd be asking them to look at paying my rent or at least assisting in rent (as it's sooo expensive!!) and any other perks which will assist in living standards. I'd be saying that I'd not be willing to lower my living standards by coming to Germany to them.... That is one thing that they should understand...
Sorry NO tax breaks for people living together, so you'll each be paying the singles tax which is the highest....
Health insurance (provided you intend to return to GB later) do it privately as these are MUCH cheaper but are limited to people being self employed or over a certain salary. I think it's €3500 pm... you can save HUGE amounts there! However if you intend to stay you CANNOT return into the state scheme if you've gone private...and it can get very expensive later in life (when one has more health problems). HAs however the advantage that you can pick your docs and hospitals and clinics and not have to use the standard wards (which are tons better than ANY NHS dirty slums) you can have single rooms etc

Quentin1

468 posts

251 months

Wednesday 11th August 2010
quotequote all
JMGS4 said:
1c) TüV is VERY strict, over 160 different individual check points and now includes the old ASU (Exhaust gas checks) and is done by government employees who may visit your local approved dealers but will not visit the smaller shops, therfore you might have to take it to them. Anything out of the ordinary carwise, they'll put on their microscope glasses and really put you through it. You might even have to have an individual approval if you've something like a TVR which can cost an arm and a leg....
Gouvernment employees? Since when? TÜV is a stock company and has nothing to do with the German gouvernment.

I brought a couple of TVRs to Germany and made them road legal, which TÜV wise cost ma about 200€ per car. Which isn´t precisely an arm and a leg.

DangerousMike

Original Poster:

11,327 posts

199 months

Wednesday 11th August 2010
quotequote all
well... been offered the job... going to have a chat about it on Friday. Thanks for the help.

Did any of you guys move away with a partner? I really don't want her to be fed up and feeling alone constantly. If you did move as a couple, how did you find it?

JMGS4

8,772 posts

277 months

Wednesday 11th August 2010
quotequote all
Quentin1 said:
Gouvernment employees? Since when? TÜV is a stock company and has nothing to do with the German gouvernment.

I brought a couple of TVRs to Germany and made them road legal, which TÜV wise cost ma about 200€ per car. Which isn´t precisely an arm and a leg.
Quentin:- just for your info TüV are all Beamten, as far as I'm aware! ie government secure jobs. The Dekra is a separate private company.

If you got an individual inspection "Einzelfahrzeugabnahme" for €200,- you've been damn lucky, they usually cost around €1400,-, know this as i have a friend who imports US cars and these all have to be individually "abgenommen" as they're not original US production cars!

darmstadt

54 posts

190 months

Wednesday 11th August 2010
quotequote all
JMGS4 said:
2) within 12 months of arrival you'll have to get a german license: and you have to carry your car docs and license and ID always
I don't think thats valid anymore re. the license. I've been her 20+ years and still have a pink (and green) UK license and have had no problems when stopped (apart from asking where the photo is!) But it was true that you had to replace it within 12 months...

JMGS4

8,772 posts

277 months

Thursday 12th August 2010
quotequote all
darmstadt said:
JMGS4 said:
2) within 12 months of arrival you'll have to get a german license: and you have to carry your car docs and license and ID always
I don't think thats valid anymore re. the license. I've been her 20+ years and still have a pink (and green) UK license and have had no problems when stopped (apart from asking where the photo is!) But it was true that you had to replace it within 12 months...
Are you sure? as they can't give you points unless you have one... or are you so angelic you've never collected one in 20 years here?
I still have my GB license (the folded pink and green large sheet) but also have the german grey reinforced paper one.....

paul.deitch

2,152 posts

264 months

Wednesday 18th August 2010
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JMGS4 said:
darmstadt said:
JMGS4 said:
2) within 12 months of arrival you'll have to get a german license: and you have to carry your car docs and license and ID always
I don't think thats valid anymore re. the license. I've been her 20+ years and still have a pink (and green) UK license and have had no problems when stopped (apart from asking where the photo is!) But it was true that you had to replace it within 12 months...
Are you sure? as they can't give you points unless you have one... or are you so angelic you've never collected one in 20 years here?
I still have my GB license (the folded pink and green large sheet) but also have the german grey reinforced paper one.....
any foreigner (or German that does not have a licence) that collects fines and points gets a virtual licence in Flemsburg, whether they want it or not.... and that virtual licence can be taken away from them.

DangerousMike

Original Poster:

11,327 posts

199 months

Wednesday 18th August 2010
quotequote all
well... I've accepted. So I am moving to London for a few months then onto Germany in the first half of next year in all likelihood. Should be a bit of an adventure.

cardigankid

8,849 posts

219 months

Tuesday 31st August 2010
quotequote all
I think that you will have a great time.

I found car insurance in Germany much cheaper than the UK, particularly after some no-claims bonus kicked in. Porsche do their own scheme through HDI - I was paying £250 a year for a Boxster S, which struck me as pretty good.

Best of luck!