German tenants rights?
Discussion
My Granddaughter and her husband are German citizens ( I`m a UK citizen ) They have rented this house for over five years, been model tenants, kept the property in good order, never had a problem. Now the landlord wants his house back and has given them three months notice.
Its in the Lippstadt- Geseke area, good family homes to rent are very difficult to find, property prices have gone through the roof.
What are their rights? can the landlord do this? any tips, advice and info would be appreciated. Naturally my Granddaughter is taking things up her end, I`m just a frustrated old Grandad living in the UK.
If this can alter things in their favour? they both have good jobs in the area, have two sons of school age. The eldest has passed and attends the Gymnasium Antonianum and is doing very well.
Its in the Lippstadt- Geseke area, good family homes to rent are very difficult to find, property prices have gone through the roof.
What are their rights? can the landlord do this? any tips, advice and info would be appreciated. Naturally my Granddaughter is taking things up her end, I`m just a frustrated old Grandad living in the UK.
If this can alter things in their favour? they both have good jobs in the area, have two sons of school age. The eldest has passed and attends the Gymnasium Antonianum and is doing very well.
From my limited and now rather aged experience of renting property in Germany, it sounds from the information you have given that the landlord is doing things by the book.
Three months’ notice is IIRC the default period, for both landlord and tenant, although it can be longer for the landlord in certain circumstances, such as long duration rentals, but I don’t think five years counts.
What exactly are you concerned about, OP?
Three months’ notice is IIRC the default period, for both landlord and tenant, although it can be longer for the landlord in certain circumstances, such as long duration rentals, but I don’t think five years counts.
What exactly are you concerned about, OP?
Old Merc said:
Just that my family will have to leave their home, they are very happy where they are. It’s not certain that they will find a similar property.
Ah. Not much I can usefully say then. Do they know why the landlord wants it back? Is he going to sell it, or use it himself?
psi310398 said:
Old Merc said:
Just that my family will have to leave their home, they are very happy where they are. It’s not certain that they will find a similar property.
Ah. Not much I can usefully say then. Do they know why the landlord wants it back? Is he going to sell it, or use it himself?
Old Merc said:
He gave them termination “due to personal use”. May be he is taking advantage of the huge rise in property values in that area? and will put it up for sale?
No, I don’t think so, at least not in a rush. Grounds for landlord termination in Germany are quite regulated, and if a tribunal finds he’s been playing silly b’s, he’d be in a world of pain. Bear in mind, though, that my experience/knowledge may be years out of date… But it sounds more like he wants to move back in or move a family member back in. I’d see what advice your granddaughter gets but FWIW I think the landlord seems to be behaving properly and is lawfully exercising his own property rights, however upsetting or inconvenient that is for your family.
Old Merc said:
He gave them termination “due to personal use”. May be he is taking advantage of the huge rise in property values in that area? and will put it up for sale?
In Germany it's almost impossible to get renters out!!!However the clause for "personal usage" Eigenbedarf can be used to terminate
This clause can only be used if he/they are actually going to live there, and he/they must produce proof at a hearing.
They cannot use it to vacate the property if they just want to sell.
If they want to sell, and your rent contract is valid, they must sell it with you as renters in place.
However the new owners can then register "personal use"
Another variation to get people out is saying the property has to be renovated... however long-term renters can just refuse... often then the water or power gets "accidentally" cut off, or the renovators cause so much noise/dust/annoyance that the renters give up!
You need to speak to the citizens advice office or lawyer and get the local interpretations....
(the sandal wearing yoghurt munchers are very good at rent appeals etc)
Just an update guys.
Been talking to my Granddaughter, apparently the landlord wants his son and partner to have the house.They are expecting a baby and getting married. My Granddaughter has had advice, she is happy that everything is being done properly. They can stay until December if necessary.
Trouble is, there is nothing suitable in the area to rent at the moment. Simple four bed homes for sale start at 450,000 euros !! they could never afford a mortgage like that.
Thanks for all your input.
Been talking to my Granddaughter, apparently the landlord wants his son and partner to have the house.They are expecting a baby and getting married. My Granddaughter has had advice, she is happy that everything is being done properly. They can stay until December if necessary.
Trouble is, there is nothing suitable in the area to rent at the moment. Simple four bed homes for sale start at 450,000 euros !! they could never afford a mortgage like that.
Thanks for all your input.
I live not far away in PB and OP you are right that prices have increased enormously, but not only here, all over Germany. Has your family checked out the Ebay-kleinanzeige ads. There is no Markler fee and often houses are up for only a short time before they are sold or rented. Generally the prices there are lower for a quick sale. The other thing that your family might look at is repos where you make an offer. Typically properties from bankruptcy or divorce. I looked at it but nothing suitable came up in my time frame. https://www.ag-paderborn.nrw.de/behoerde/zvg_termi...
If your granddaughter has litigation insurance, she should be able to extend her eventual eviction. If she could prove that the eviction is based under false motives, the judge has the means to extend the eviction's deadline indefinitely.
Three months is utopian, given that demand for housing superceeds the amounbt of units being constructed. Since 2015, the situation has become nearly impossible. Because of the recent events in Afghanistan, the housing market will be even more difficult.
I went through an eviction of this type and the landlord immediately sold the apartment of which I dwelled in. Since the statutes of limitations in Germany have mandated a 3-year deadline, I have until Autumn of next year for filing a complaint.
Unfortunately, there are only a few circumstances of which will warrant an up to 5 years imprisonment and a fine for landlords who have fraudulently abused such a clause for alternative motives. Otherwise, fraudulent actions of this type are only dealt with as civil transgressions
Three months is utopian, given that demand for housing superceeds the amounbt of units being constructed. Since 2015, the situation has become nearly impossible. Because of the recent events in Afghanistan, the housing market will be even more difficult.
I went through an eviction of this type and the landlord immediately sold the apartment of which I dwelled in. Since the statutes of limitations in Germany have mandated a 3-year deadline, I have until Autumn of next year for filing a complaint.
Unfortunately, there are only a few circumstances of which will warrant an up to 5 years imprisonment and a fine for landlords who have fraudulently abused such a clause for alternative motives. Otherwise, fraudulent actions of this type are only dealt with as civil transgressions
Thanks for your reply Al_Dente. My Granddaughter is still there and looking for an alternative. She has had advice and the way I understand it is that the landlord is doing things correctly and being reasonable. That does not help my Granddaughter and her family though, they do not want to move. Been there years, are model tenants, the eldest boy attends the local Gymnasium school and his brother his first school. They do not want to change schools.
They want to stay in Geseke and will not move until they have found a suitable alternative home.
The landlord can not kick them out onto the street can he?
They want to stay in Geseke and will not move until they have found a suitable alternative home.
The landlord can not kick them out onto the street can he?
I wanted to reply yesterday, but I'm still under close moderation which doesen't allow me to post during certain hours yet
On a moral basis, he should mentally be putting himself in the place of your granddaughter, in order to understand the hardship of which she would be going through
1- The length of time of which the family has been residing in that home. The eviction deadline is automatically extended, the longer that family has been residing there. Depending on the length of residence, the eviction could take years, before it becomes finalized
2- A single person is easier to evict than an entire family, as the childrens' welfare is taken into consideration
3- If that landlord owns other properties, he is required to offer any suitable available substitute property to the person/s intended to get evicted (Anbietspflicht)
Old Merc said:
...I understand it is that the landlord is doing things correctly and being reasonable...
That's beside the point. This is the same situation as a rental company renting out automobiles. They chose to do so, as a business venture. The landlord is in the business of earning money and has a set of laws governing his business. Since the rental contract he signed, together with your granddaughter, was a rental agreement on an indefinite basis, he has to acknowledge this fact.On a moral basis, he should mentally be putting himself in the place of your granddaughter, in order to understand the hardship of which she would be going through
Old Merc said:
...The landlord can not kick them out onto the street can he?
Legally, it's possible. However, this would depend on several factors:1- The length of time of which the family has been residing in that home. The eviction deadline is automatically extended, the longer that family has been residing there. Depending on the length of residence, the eviction could take years, before it becomes finalized
2- A single person is easier to evict than an entire family, as the childrens' welfare is taken into consideration
3- If that landlord owns other properties, he is required to offer any suitable available substitute property to the person/s intended to get evicted (Anbietspflicht)
Edited by Al_Dente on Saturday 25th September 09:26
Edited by Al_Dente on Saturday 25th September 09:27
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