Discussion
we're in the middle of the planning stage for our first project in France.
when we we're developing in the UK we had an Architect who was great, he basically acted as a draughtsman but also handled the building regs etc, always took a back seat unless we asked him for something specific, put simply, he put our floor layouts and finish ideas into drawings and submitted them.
In France it seems Architects want total control on the project, from initial layout / room positioning etc right down to what finishes they wold like to use.
My question is....
at what level do the architects really need to be involved legally? ie we want bare minimum input from them as we already know exactly what we want and are not interested in their creative ideas.
any help appreciated as we're getting real teed off with them
when we we're developing in the UK we had an Architect who was great, he basically acted as a draughtsman but also handled the building regs etc, always took a back seat unless we asked him for something specific, put simply, he put our floor layouts and finish ideas into drawings and submitted them.
In France it seems Architects want total control on the project, from initial layout / room positioning etc right down to what finishes they wold like to use.
My question is....
at what level do the architects really need to be involved legally? ie we want bare minimum input from them as we already know exactly what we want and are not interested in their creative ideas.
any help appreciated as we're getting real teed off with them
I wanted to do the all of the design for my home in France.
In my experience in the UK, architects have an "Arts" biased degrees and so tend to be very poor at designing to a budget.
I used a Maitre d' oeuvre batiment for my project here. They are skilled project managers who have technical support for their design and account preparation within their bureau.
Although I had worked many years in construction in the UK, and I now am able to express myself much better in French, I would still go the same route, if I wanted to build another unique house in France in the future.
If you want any further advice PM me.
In my experience in the UK, architects have an "Arts" biased degrees and so tend to be very poor at designing to a budget.
I used a Maitre d' oeuvre batiment for my project here. They are skilled project managers who have technical support for their design and account preparation within their bureau.
Although I had worked many years in construction in the UK, and I now am able to express myself much better in French, I would still go the same route, if I wanted to build another unique house in France in the future.
If you want any further advice PM me.
rdjohn said:
I wanted to do the all of the design for my home in France.
In my experience in the UK, architects have an "Arts" biased degrees and so tend to be very poor at designing to a budget.
I used a Maitre d' oeuvre batiment for my project here. They are skilled project managers who have technical support for their design and account preparation within their bureau.
Although I had worked many years in construction in the UK, and I now am able to express myself much better in French, I would still go the same route, if I wanted to build another unique house in France in the future.
If you want any further advice PM me.
sounds interesting In my experience in the UK, architects have an "Arts" biased degrees and so tend to be very poor at designing to a budget.
I used a Maitre d' oeuvre batiment for my project here. They are skilled project managers who have technical support for their design and account preparation within their bureau.
Although I had worked many years in construction in the UK, and I now am able to express myself much better in French, I would still go the same route, if I wanted to build another unique house in France in the future.
If you want any further advice PM me.
but would this apply to large projects over 150m2?
I was lead to believe there is a 'l'ordre des architects' for any new build, extension or change of use exceeding 150m2, that you have to use an Architect?
Hoping I am wrong
Pvapour said:
rdjohn said:
I wanted to do the all of the design for my home in France.
In my experience in the UK, architects have an "Arts" biased degrees and so tend to be very poor at designing to a budget.
I used a Maitre d' oeuvre batiment for my project here. They are skilled project managers who have technical support for their design and account preparation within their bureau.
Although I had worked many years in construction in the UK, and I now am able to express myself much better in French, I would still go the same route, if I wanted to build another unique house in France in the future.
If you want any further advice PM me.
sounds interesting In my experience in the UK, architects have an "Arts" biased degrees and so tend to be very poor at designing to a budget.
I used a Maitre d' oeuvre batiment for my project here. They are skilled project managers who have technical support for their design and account preparation within their bureau.
Although I had worked many years in construction in the UK, and I now am able to express myself much better in French, I would still go the same route, if I wanted to build another unique house in France in the future.
If you want any further advice PM me.
but would this apply to large projects over 150m2?
I was lead to believe there is a 'l'ordre des architects' for any new build, extension or change of use exceeding 150m2, that you have to use an Architect?
Hoping I am wrong
I understand that most significant projects that are designed by Architects are actually constructed by a Maitre d' oeuvre batiment - literally a master builder. Consequently they know the right sized mason, electrician, plasterer to do your project, in your area. When these guys say "jump", the subbies say "how high"; most important if you want your project completing on time
The key point with either route is to take-up references - most people can talk a good job. Better still, find someone else local who has successfully completed a project similar to yours and ask them who did it and what were the problems.
these will be the 'assistants' they talk of that handle most of the work by the sounds of it, interestingly we have had two more meetings today which were much more productive and they actually listened to our ideas rather than talking over the top of us, I'm not into shouting to take control of the project
they were allot more confident and actually sounded like they knew what they were talking about, I'm sure their price will reflect that but worth it in my mind.
The option you talk of has sprung up on another forum and I have been given a contact who is 20 mins from the project
On the whole we are a more up beat now so thanks for your input, may well still take you up on your PM help at some point if that ok?
Cheers!
they were allot more confident and actually sounded like they knew what they were talking about, I'm sure their price will reflect that but worth it in my mind.
The option you talk of has sprung up on another forum and I have been given a contact who is 20 mins from the project
On the whole we are a more up beat now so thanks for your input, may well still take you up on your PM help at some point if that ok?
Cheers!
J B L said:
When my in laws built their house, they did the plans themselves and all the official architechts had to do was sign them off... for a fee. nice and easy job!
Your architect sounds like a pain in the backside. Find another one.
we dont have an architect Your architect sounds like a pain in the backside. Find another one.
maybe I wasn't clear :dizzy: we are in the process of finding an Architect, hence the frustration, looks like they're coming good though
9 down, 2 hopefuls, 4 to go Pvapour said:
J B L said:
When my in laws built their house, they did the plans themselves and all the official architechts had to do was sign them off... for a fee. nice and easy job!
Your architect sounds like a pain in the backside. Find another one.
we dont have an architect Your architect sounds like a pain in the backside. Find another one.
maybe I wasn't clear :dizzy: we are in the process of finding an Architect, hence the frustration, looks like they're coming good though
9 down, 2 hopefuls, 4 to go After that, find some Portuguese blokes and have the house built.
Don't know where I read you actually had an architect in Frahce. .
I blame my english teachers.
Under french law up to 170 sq. mtrs. you don't need an architect, which is why you often seen houses (especially the wooden kit ones) sold at 169 sq mtrs. Above that you need an architect. As regards getting an english architect involved, he'd immediately think of double skinned brick I reckon and not the traditional "parpaing" style of building in France, so I don't really think it's on. Correct me if I'm wrong though. As said, the Maitre d'œuvre is highly efficient at controlling costs - after all, that's his job. Do you know enough people in the region who could point you in the right direction? I must admit I've found all my good and honest people from contacts at the bar where I have my coffee in the mornings.
Had to be a French based Architect, its 1250m2 project so would need him to be handy, so after meeting 9 different Architects we went with a very nice French guy, very well known to the people that matter (quite important here) speaks very good english, price and lead times were competitive and he's happy to guide rather than than control, result (or so it seems at the mo)
See first drawings in 10 days
(or so it seems at the mo)See first drawings in 10 days
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