Restoring property and making a few euro's

[528Sport]

Hi,
For quite a while I have been wanting to buy a house in France, restore and maybe sell or rent it out as a holiday let.
Is it still possible to make a good profit doing this? I don’t expect to become a millionaire but it would be nice to know if I could make say 10-20%. It's also about getting some enjoyment out of a project.

I am thinking around the Normandy/Brittany area’s if that makes a difference.

Thanks


528

Edited by 528Sport on Tuesday 15th December 14:00

[Mello]

Hi 528,

Have a look here as it has a good range in all areas and will give you a good idea of what's available...

Edited by Mello on Tuesday 15th December 20:37

[Puggit]

We bought a house in France 2 years ago, did some work and rent it out. The property was bought as a long term investment and a holiday home, rather than a rental business outright.

We paid €195,000 plus various notaire fees (which add up significantly!) and then paid around €20k to do it up and add an extra bathroom. Luckily we bought at €1.40 to the £, and renovated above €1.30 to the £.

The house doesn't quite turn a profit yet in terms of money in versus money out, but remember that the majority of the mortgage is being paid for us. Being a little further south than Normandy, swimming pools can add a lot to a weekly rental price (we don't have one yet!).

A lot also depends on what tax regime you choose. Our's allows us to offset the setting up costs of the business against income for the next 5 years - useful!

[528Sport]

Thanks everyone. Hopefully this will be next years project.

I have been looking at jbfrench property and http://www.francepropertyshop.com/

Thanks for the other link above. Also what is there a french version of B&Q ? or is it easier to hire a van and bring materials over?

Cheers

[Paul 2000]

528Sport said:

Thanks everyone. Hopefully this will be next years project.

I have been looking at jbfrench property and http://www.francepropertyshop.com/

Thanks for the other link above. Also what is there a french version of B&Q ? or is it easier to hire a van and bring materials over?

Cheers

There's quite a choice of B&Q alternatives but be prepared to pay a LOT more in France for products that are cheap in the UK. There was a thread on here recently about how pricey some things have become in France. Anyway, the choice is mainly: Leroy Merlin (not everywhere but the best I've found for choice over here), Mr Bricolage, BricoMarche, BigMat - I'm sure there's others but they're the first few that spring to mind.

Edited to add link to other thread: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by Paul 2000 on Wednesday 16th December 09:36

[528Sport]

many thanks for the links above

I think i will buy a cheap van

528

[Puggit]

In Tours we have the choice of Leroy Merlin or Brico-Depot. LM is like B&Q, but B-D is like B&Q used to be 20 years ago. It's really no frills, and even shuts at lunch. We find it much cheaper than UK diy shops.

Be aware that you'll need approval from the Marie for many tasks that would be considered normal in the UK. There's lots of homework to do!

If you need a UK based accountant to deal with French matters, let me know - we've found a good one!

[528Sport]

Many many thanks for all the tips links and advice.

I have been wishing to do someting like this for years, I am hoping (did say it at the beginning of this year) that next year will be the start of better thing for me and the family.

528

[leyorkie]

Brico Depot is owned by Kingfisher group who own B&Q they also own Castorama. There are lots of smaller builders merchants but expect to pay more.
Before you commit to a property I suggest that you take a trip and look at building materials etc in France. Most of the DIY chains have stores near to Calais or Boulougne including Brico Depot. Leroy Merlin have "How to " booklets which explain the French way of things for example no ring mains all sockets have their own trip.

[Stig]

As said above, renovation is not cheap in France as material costs are high. This, I believe, is to protect the 'artisans' (French tradesmen) but DIY is also a relatively 'new' thing to them (relatively speaking). I've taken most materials out there for this reason.

Couple of things to note. Some work requires certification which is a requirement for insurance - so artisans may be the only practical route unless you fancy reading/understanding/appling the umpteen regulations that are in place for electrical/plumbing etc.

Oh, and selling within 5 years is subject to 19% capital gains - so unless you're in for a few years, it may not be worth it.

French housing market isn't exactly booming at the mo either, not to mention the near pound/euro parity - it makes it an expensive business!

We were lucky and bought at 1.42. I left enough cash there to do the renovation too (almost), but popping to Brico for a plumbing fitting that costs a quid here and paying €7.5 for it never ceases to make me cringe!!!!

[Puggit]

One more thing, the French don't use surveyors

Instead, they'll take their tame artisan around while they do their second viewing. The artisan will suck through teeth and give a quote for work.

If you want details of an English surveyor based out of Brittany but covering North of the Loire and up in to Normandy then let us know!

Oh, and can I suggest watching ChateauCharly in Five's Build a new life in the country:

http://www.chateaudecharly.com/about_us.htm

Unfortunately Jason's PH profile seems to have been wiped!

[528Sport]

Thanks again chaps
Have a good christmas and new year.


528

[jason77]

Yes, not using the Chateau de Charly profile these days. We are back in the UK now with a new property business.

Please do look at our site and the programme if would be useful to you and feel free to ask me for any advice or information.

[Driller]

leyorkie said:

Leroy Merlin have "How to " booklets which explain the French way of things for example no ring mains all sockets have their own trip.

Eh? We have exactly 121 mains sockets in our house (restored 4 years ago) and if each one had to had its own trip switch our electricity boards would look like something out of Abbey Road studios.

[leyorkie]

In practice some do get linked but how many trips do you have? There are load limits.
Did you do the electrics or a French engineer?

Just interested.
Link to Leroy Merlin guides
http://www.leroymerlin.fr/mpng2-front/pre?zone=zon...

Edited by leyorkie on Saturday 2nd January 10:54

[Bodo]

leyorkie said:

In practice some do get linked but how many trips do you have? There are load limits.
Did you do the electrics or a French engineer?

Just interested.
Link to Leroy Merlin guides
http://www.leroymerlin.fr/mpng2-front/pre?zone=zon...

Edited by leyorkie on Saturday 2nd January 10:54

Linked from the site you linked:
>Je réalise une installation électrique (Format PDF 647 Ko)

It recommends a max of eight lamps or eight sockets per fuse on page 5 in the diagram.

[Joe T]

I have had my place (holiday home) for nearly 10 years, prices were a bit different then, but over the years I have made friends with a lot of Brits who have done exactly what the OP is aiming to do, But these days most of them have stopped doing renovations or relocated out of France due to the costs versus return.

I think if you can stomach the costs of the renovations at French prices or factor in tranporting materials/workmen from the UK, plus come to terms with no real short term capital investment gain then its worth it.
Its my experience that the quality and decor of a renovation is not as prized in France as it is in the UK, they are more interested in number of room and square area.(Unless you sell to Brits)

If you looking for an adventure that could prove profitable over the longer term then go for it.

Good Luck

Joe

[jason77]

So basically your saying its not worth it financially!!!

And in my experience at the present time that is correct. If you are simply looking for a project to do and make some money France is not the best or easiest option.

[Puggit]

jason77 said:

So basically your saying its not worth it financially!!!

And in my experience at the present time that is correct. If you are simply looking for a project to do and make some money France is not the best or easiest option.

You did go for the toughest project though

[Doofus]

Many of the Brits in the area we live are packing up and going back home. It seems the only way to make any money at the property renovation game is to have a decent exchange rate. Now we don't have that, lots of people are deciding they don't actually like France after all.

Not us, mind.