French Taxation

Author
Discussion

slf2012

Original Poster:

313 posts

153 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
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I'm thinking about starting a small business in France, turnover probably wouldn't be more than €50-60k per year.

Is there an English language taxation guide available online? Obviously before taking the plunge, I'd be talking to a qualified accountant, but I was just trying to get a feel for the levels of tax.

I presume that the laws will be similar to the UK laws, and that the majority of the differences will be in the percentages?

Terryg4

233 posts

105 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
Hello
At that level of turnover , it depends whether your business is a selling type business or a service type business

Terry

zbc

899 posts

158 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
Some of the principles are certainly similar but applied quite differently. If you take your example with €55k turnover and assuming that it's a service type company with little costs apart from you. I run my own consultancy based here and that's how it is for me. Once you strip out bank costs, fees, insurance etc you're left with say €50k that you want to pay yourself. Out of this maybe €10k will go to the state as the employers social security contributions leaving you with a salary of €40k. You will the pay another €10k to the state as employees contributions. The good news is that you won't pay much tax on the remaining €30k. Tax rates here are not too bad but what is most important is that you are taxed as a family and not as an individual. Each household gets a number of points dependent on its composition and then the total income is shared between those points. So I live with my wife and three kids. The first two children are half a point each and the third counts as one so we have 4 points. This means my net income is divided by 4 and each tranche gets a tax free bit, a lower tax bit and so on. Tax isn't usually a worry, social charges are.

There are also all the usual supports for starting a business in France and they are pretty generous if you are already in France. Depending on your situation you should look at these. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.

This is worth a look and mostly correct https://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/runn...


Terryg4

233 posts

105 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
I was under the impression that as a service type business that you could not exceed 32,900€ per year under the Micro-Entrepreneur system, that said it can be doubled if you are married and are both set up individuals (Commercial sales 82200€ per year) all figures based on gross turnover
If you set up anything other than a Micro Entrepreneur the contributions can be prohibitive unless you can offset lots of cost

Terry

zbc

899 posts

158 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
Terry you are right but my business isn't Micro-entrepreneur which is why my social charges are pretty high but only on my salary whereas for micro-entrepreneur it's calculated on turnover

smifffymoto

4,771 posts

212 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
It depends what the business is and what it does.This will more or less dictate which regime you will want to set up as.
Are you selling? Have you got material costs,do you want to reclaim TVA.
Can you give us more details?

smifffymoto

4,771 posts

212 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
Terryg4 said:
I was under the impression that as a service type business that you could not exceed 32,900€ per year under the Micro-Entrepreneur system, that said it can be doubled if you are married and are both set up individuals (Commercial sales 82200€ per year) all figures based on gross turnover
If you set up anything other than a Micro Entrepreneur the contributions can be prohibitive unless you can offset lots of cost

Terry
As a micro en. your turnover is capped as you say but if you provide a service you are charged 27% of your turnover for contisaions etc. and nothing is tax deductible.
Many expats see micro en. as the easy option as it can be done online and you don't have to meet with anybody or pay any start up costs but it really does depend on what you do and how you do it.

slf2012

Original Poster:

313 posts

153 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
Terryg4 said:
Hello
At that level of turnover , it depends whether your business is a selling type business or a service type business

Terry
Thanks for all the replies so far.

The business would be occasional renting of sports cars, so I think that would be classed as selling rather than service?

smifffymoto

4,771 posts

212 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
If you rent out cars,I would class that as a service not sales.You say you are thinking about starting a business in France but don't say if you are resident or prospective resident.If you just want a carte vitale there are less expensive ways to get one.

slf2012

Original Poster:

313 posts

153 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
smifffymoto said:
If you rent out cars,I would class that as a service not sales.You say you are thinking about starting a business in France but don't say if you are resident or prospective resident.If you just want a carte vitale there are less expensive ways to get one.
Thanks for the feedback.

I am not a resident, but currently spend about 4 months a year there. This would possibly increase to closer to 6 months per year in the next year or so. I presume I'd need to register for tax etc if I went over 180 days?

No real desire to become a resident, I work overseas and spend the majority of my time off in France. We just like spending time there, and renting out a couple of cars might be a good way of paying for it all.

magooagain

10,806 posts

177 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
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Can't help with the taxation questions,but would the rental cars be lhd and French plated? If not you could be into a world of insurance pain.

slf2012

Original Poster:

313 posts

153 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
magooagain said:
Can't help with the taxation questions,but would the rental cars be lhd and French plated? If not you could be into a world of insurance pain.
One is LHD and on French plates, but the other one is RHD and currently on UK plates. I can get it on to French plates, but can't (won't) change it to LHD.

Trying to get insurance for any rental vehicle is proving to be challenging!


magooagain

10,806 posts

177 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
quotequote all
Yes. Getting a uk car on uk plates insured in France is easy,but to use that vehicle in a car hire business would be very difficult.
Maybe try a uk insurance company as it is part time so to speak.

I thought about starting up an airport taxi business here in France once. After some early research I just gave up as my pockets were just not deep enough.

Terryg4

233 posts

105 months

Friday 4th March 2016
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You would probably get different answers to the questions from various individuals from Tax /Chamber Commerce /Metier offices but it could be worth asking whether it is a service or sales.
Keep a note (if they give it to you) of their name :-)



Montauge

87 posts

164 months

Friday 4th March 2016
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We used to run a business renting out sports cars in France (from 2003-2009). We gave it up in 2009 and focussed on our main business primarily because the insurance costs were so high. If you do it all above board (as we did) then we were paying about 16,000Euros per year if I remember correctly for insuring 4 sports cars on comprehensive insurance.
It was a good way for us to promote our main business but the finances just didn't work out, for it to be a viable business in its own right, especially if you take into account the value of the assets too.
If you are intent on doing it and want to pm me I would be more than happy to tell your about our experiences.

Driller

8,310 posts

285 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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slf2012 said:
I'm thinking about starting a small business in France,
Just one single word of advice for you.

Don't.

paulwirral

3,405 posts

142 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
quotequote all
Driller said:
Just one single word of advice for you.

Don't.
Best advice ever , anywhere , in the history of the world !
Best thing we ever did was move back to England and work in England and holiday in France , even my french neighbours complain about France !