Moving to France
Discussion
Well, I'm 43 years old, two children (8 and 5). I would like to up sticks and move to France. I speak decent (not 100% fluent though) French, good enough to get by in a job there (I've worked sales jobs before selling to France and Northern Africa in French, and I've done IT support in French). I'm currently a Project Manager for a huge IT corporation.
The plan would be to rent my house out here, which would give me about £1200 a month income above the mortgage payment. This, in combination with a job for me, would give us a good income I believe. I would need to rent a home there, obviously. I am hoping that I would be able to earn enough that my wife would be able to give up work.
So, the questions for the panel who have knowledge of working/living there would be as follows:
1 - My instinct is to head for the Paris area, for reasons of employment possibilities. Is this sensible?
2 - Assuming the answer to 1 is "yes", what's it going to cost me to rent a 3/4 bed house with a nice garden and parking in commuting distance of Paris?
3 - What other pitfalls/expenses should I be considering?
4 - What's the score with French state schools - are they tolerant of children with no French and getting them up to speed? Are standards above/below British averages?
5 - What sort of jobs/industries should I be considering? What sort of salary levels can I expect?
6 - If not Paris - where? We like the outdoors, walking, skiing, all that jazz.
Any thoughts most welcome.
EDIT: Apologies for posting in the wrong place, thanks for moving. I hadn't even spotted this sub-forum before and no doubt a lot of my questions are already covered. I'll have a root around.
The plan would be to rent my house out here, which would give me about £1200 a month income above the mortgage payment. This, in combination with a job for me, would give us a good income I believe. I would need to rent a home there, obviously. I am hoping that I would be able to earn enough that my wife would be able to give up work.
So, the questions for the panel who have knowledge of working/living there would be as follows:
1 - My instinct is to head for the Paris area, for reasons of employment possibilities. Is this sensible?
2 - Assuming the answer to 1 is "yes", what's it going to cost me to rent a 3/4 bed house with a nice garden and parking in commuting distance of Paris?
3 - What other pitfalls/expenses should I be considering?
4 - What's the score with French state schools - are they tolerant of children with no French and getting them up to speed? Are standards above/below British averages?
5 - What sort of jobs/industries should I be considering? What sort of salary levels can I expect?
6 - If not Paris - where? We like the outdoors, walking, skiing, all that jazz.
Any thoughts most welcome.
EDIT: Apologies for posting in the wrong place, thanks for moving. I hadn't even spotted this sub-forum before and no doubt a lot of my questions are already covered. I'll have a root around.
Edited by VoziKaoFangio on Thursday 7th November 13:01
Hmm. Well, I spent a few months in Paris once working a telesales job and seemed well enough accepted there, although it was a job I'd secured in the UK and the company was British. I suppose it depends on how good my French actually is - I'd consider it not 100% fluent, but maybe I'm over critical of myself as I know there's room for improvement. I did quite well selling stuff to French speakers and doing IT support for them in the past. Never had any complaints about my language skills.
Have you thought of some of the other Francophone countries, like Belgium or Luxembourg. I live in France on the border with Luxembourg and there are always plenty of IT related jobs looking to be filled, mostly with banks. I'm sure you'll find something around Paris but be prepared for a London style commute. Most of the other big cities could work well too, what about Bordeaux?
My kids were 7, 4 and 1 when we moved here, although the 7 year old had had a bit of french schooling before when she was 4 but they've all adapted pretty well to the schooling. It's also relatively common to redo a year her and there's no shame to it so one option that some people take if you were moving in say March would be to go into a year and then redo it again in September if the school thought it was needed.
There's a lot of questions to try and answer but feel free to PM as well if you have anything specific. We moved here 7 years ago and although it looks likely I'll be out of work soon (but getting 70% of my normal pay for two years from the state if necessary) we're very keen to find a solution that allows us to stay here.
My kids were 7, 4 and 1 when we moved here, although the 7 year old had had a bit of french schooling before when she was 4 but they've all adapted pretty well to the schooling. It's also relatively common to redo a year her and there's no shame to it so one option that some people take if you were moving in say March would be to go into a year and then redo it again in September if the school thought it was needed.
There's a lot of questions to try and answer but feel free to PM as well if you have anything specific. We moved here 7 years ago and although it looks likely I'll be out of work soon (but getting 70% of my normal pay for two years from the state if necessary) we're very keen to find a solution that allows us to stay here.
Just realised you didn't say why you want to do this. It seems like money won't be too tight so you could have more options if you aren't committed to a particular place and weren't desparate to maximize your income but if you do have a certain lifestyle in mind, it would be good to know.
VoziKaoFangio said:
1 - My instinct is to head for the Paris area, for reasons of employment possibilities. Is this sensible?
Maybe 
There are always more jobs and higher wages on offer in a capital city, but if those are your only reasons, they might not be sufficient to outweigh certain inconveniences. I think you need to really love Paris to overlook its disadvantages. Noise and pollution levels are high, housing is expensive for the space you (don't) get, the prices and rooms/garden requirements force you out to the suburbs or further, and commuting into Paris at rush hour will slowly destroy your soul.
I suppose a compromise would be to find a job that's also in the suburbs, which would be less of a chore to drive to than the centre of Paris.
It's a dazzlingly beautiful city at the right moments and I love it dearly, but if I had children I'd be looking for a (consistently) better quality of life elsewhere.
VoziKaoFangio said:
2 - Assuming the answer to 1 is "yes", what's it going to cost me to rent a 3/4 bed house with a nice garden and parking in commuting distance of Paris?
Very variable, and partly depends on what you consider a tolerable commuting distance, but I'd say something decent within an hour's drive of Paris would cost €1.4k - €1.7k /month. Try here.As neil-f suggests, you can cut commuting time in half if you're near a TGV station.
VoziKaoFangio said:
3 - What other pitfalls/expenses should I be considering?
- Cost of living. I'm actually quite surprised by that, I thought average wages were much higher in London. Apparently not. The site doesn't chart property surface area against rent though.
- In job offers, the salary quoted is the "salaire brut", which means social security charges will be deducted from it. The "salaire net" is what you actually receive on pay day (brut -> net calculator). However, there's no PAYE system in France, so you still have to deduct income tax from your salaire net (income tax calculator). Income tax can be paid quarterly by cheque/standing order, or monthly by direct debit.
- As a French resident I *think* (can anyone confirm?) you'll also be taxed on the income from your rented property in the UK. A decent accountant with knowledge of both French and UK systems may know ways around that.
VoziKaoFangio said:
4 - What's the score with French state schools - are they tolerant of children with no French and getting them up to speed? Are standards above/below British averages?
Can't answer the "getting up to speed" part, but my impression is that standards are pretty high. Maybe too high - there's a lot of talk of stress problems in schools, and exaggerated expectations of what French students should achieve. Then again, you could argue that dumbing down the exams would be a greater evil...VoziKaoFangio said:
5 - What sort of jobs/industries should I be considering? What sort of salary levels can I expect?
Check monster.fr, but I'd guess IT Project Management should be worth €45-60k in Paris, depending how impressive your CV is. Maybe 15% less in a French city other than Paris, and 25% less out in the sticks. Banking/finance sectors pay more, as you'd expect. VoziKaoFangio said:
6 - If not Paris - where? We like the outdoors, walking, skiing, all that jazz.
And you're seriously considering Paris? Get to the Alps, man! Live on the Annecy/Annemasse axis.
Work in Geneva.
Cheap(er) rent, easy commute, massive salary, stunning scenery, clean air. Pas mal, non ? *
* Disclaimer: I do not work for the Rhone-Alpes Expat Coercion Bureau
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