Caterhams in France
Discussion
I want an R400 or 500 BUT
Is it legal to keep it registered in the UK but sign it off with the DVLA as exported.All other issues,control tech and insurance would be French.
I'm taking this approach as these models are not soldIn France but the R300 is and therefore hoimolagated.
I suppose A quick call to Caterham will give me the answer to the legality of the R400 and 500 homolagation Question but I'm also curious to the wider question as it affects a lot of cars on my wish list(cobras etc).
Is it legal to keep it registered in the UK but sign it off with the DVLA as exported.All other issues,control tech and insurance would be French.
I'm taking this approach as these models are not soldIn France but the R300 is and therefore hoimolagated.
I suppose A quick call to Caterham will give me the answer to the legality of the R400 and 500 homolagation Question but I'm also curious to the wider question as it affects a lot of cars on my wish list(cobras etc).
Similar dilemma for me .... Here for 3yrs and the Griffith is sat in garage as I'll have to get it thru single vehicle approval to get it registered as I'm not totally comfortable with 'I've got an address in the UK and it's only here this week etc approach'.
It has been done here for Griffiths, Chimaeras were in fact homologated, so I'd like to know why you think it wouldn't be possible for a Caterham R500, given other models are homologated so maybe easier SVA?
Also in the market for a Caterham funnily enough, but it will be track only as I also looked at registering here and what I'm after isn't homologated either, so only going to trailer it, which adds some more complication
It has been done here for Griffiths, Chimaeras were in fact homologated, so I'd like to know why you think it wouldn't be possible for a Caterham R500, given other models are homologated so maybe easier SVA?
Also in the market for a Caterham funnily enough, but it will be track only as I also looked at registering here and what I'm after isn't homologated either, so only going to trailer it, which adds some more complication
rdjohn said:
I was speaking with a French guy who owned a R500 and he told me that the factory know the problem and so will be the registered keeper in the UK, so that you can keep it on UK plates.
As you mentioned, you have no chance of registering it here.
If the factory are aware of the problem why don't they do something to sort it?As you mentioned, you have no chance of registering it here.
I also think LHD would be more convenient for me but harder to sell after I've had my fix so RHD would be a more sensible purchase.
This is just anecdotal stuff from talking to people at trackdays, I am no expert. The particular car I am referring to was LHD, I also understand that Ariel will do the same for French clients buying Atoms.
The cost of type approval for all vehicles is prohibitively expensive for small companies so only a few Caterhams are holomolgated here. I presume that was also true for TVR.
In theory, it is possible to get a single type approval. The Martin is a licensed Caterham kit, but from what I understand getting one is fraught with difficulties in a very bureaucratic country. I spoke with a French guy who had built a Tiger kit car. He said that at his first test, the tester could not really find any problems, but would not sign it of and suggested he came back in a couple of months. The second time it was a different tester, who was an enthusiast, and he signed it off straightaway.
I suppose if you were being asked to sign-off as safe, something that was built at home, it is much easier to say No! than have a finger pointed at you if someone is killed in the car. A Jobsworth mentality.
The system in France is designed to be easy for Renault, Peugeot and Citroen to sell cars. You even pay a higher fiscal tax when you register a holomogated imported car, but somehow this does not break EU rules as they are local taxes.
The cost of type approval for all vehicles is prohibitively expensive for small companies so only a few Caterhams are holomolgated here. I presume that was also true for TVR.
In theory, it is possible to get a single type approval. The Martin is a licensed Caterham kit, but from what I understand getting one is fraught with difficulties in a very bureaucratic country. I spoke with a French guy who had built a Tiger kit car. He said that at his first test, the tester could not really find any problems, but would not sign it of and suggested he came back in a couple of months. The second time it was a different tester, who was an enthusiast, and he signed it off straightaway.
I suppose if you were being asked to sign-off as safe, something that was built at home, it is much easier to say No! than have a finger pointed at you if someone is killed in the car. A Jobsworth mentality.
The system in France is designed to be easy for Renault, Peugeot and Citroen to sell cars. You even pay a higher fiscal tax when you register a holomogated imported car, but somehow this does not break EU rules as they are local taxes.
I registered my 97 TVR Chimera here in France; the process was a little long and you needed to fill in some extra forms but generally not to much hassle.
My route was to bring the car in, then insure it with AXA (price is a bit steep compared to the UK), get a control technique, after this the DERA could not say too much as the car seemed to be recognized in France.
£60 paper fee, £63 for the CT, £800 to register the car to me in France (19CV) plus £28 for the plates, bobs your uncle, legal in France.
My route was to bring the car in, then insure it with AXA (price is a bit steep compared to the UK), get a control technique, after this the DERA could not say too much as the car seemed to be recognized in France.
£60 paper fee, £63 for the CT, £800 to register the car to me in France (19CV) plus £28 for the plates, bobs your uncle, legal in France.
Bloke I know who has a TVR, has had a chat with the kind lady here in Le Mans at the DRIRE. She's helped me with Esprits before. Anyway she told him which TVR models will go straight through and which will have issues. i can see with him if you like.
Johno said:
Similar dilemma for me .... Here for 3yrs and the Griffith is sat in garage as I'll have to get it thru single vehicle approval to get it registered as I'm not totally comfortable with 'I've got an address in the UK and it's only here this week etc approach'.
It has been done here for Griffiths, Chimaeras were in fact homologated, so I'd like to know why you think it wouldn't be possible for a Caterham R500, given other models are homologated so maybe easier SVA?
Also in the market for a Caterham funnily enough, but it will be track only as I also looked at registering here and what I'm after isn't homologated either, so only going to trailer it, which adds some more complication
It has been done here for Griffiths, Chimaeras were in fact homologated, so I'd like to know why you think it wouldn't be possible for a Caterham R500, given other models are homologated so maybe easier SVA?
Also in the market for a Caterham funnily enough, but it will be track only as I also looked at registering here and what I'm after isn't homologated either, so only going to trailer it, which adds some more complication
eddie man said:
Bloke I know who has a TVR, has had a chat with the kind lady here in Le Mans at the DRIRE. She's helped me with Esprits before. Anyway she told him which TVR models will go straight through and which will have issues. i can see with him if you like.
Surely, her answer will be "the ones that were originally holomogated in France"?Johno said:
Similar dilemma for me .... Here for 3yrs and the Griffith is sat in garage as I'll have to get it thru single vehicle approval to get it registered as I'm not totally comfortable with 'I've got an address in the UK and it's only here this week etc approach'.
It has been done here for Griffiths, Chimaeras were in fact homologated, so I'd like to know why you think it wouldn't be possible for a Caterham R500, given other models are homologated so maybe easier SVA?
Also in the market for a Caterham funnily enough, but it will be track only as I also looked at registering here and what I'm after isn't homologated either, so only going to trailer it, which adds some more complication
It has been done here for Griffiths, Chimaeras were in fact homologated, so I'd like to know why you think it wouldn't be possible for a Caterham R500, given other models are homologated so maybe easier SVA?
Also in the market for a Caterham funnily enough, but it will be track only as I also looked at registering here and what I'm after isn't homologated either, so only going to trailer it, which adds some more complication
rdjohn said:
Surely, her answer will be "the ones that were originally holomogated in France"?
Very likely. It's still a useful list to have.However, the list might - just might - also include those that have been "homologated" since (not by single vehicle approval, but by slipping through the system due to prefectural staff inconsistently applying the rules, for whatever reason
). I get the feeling that once there's a VIN for a given model in the database, things go more smoothly.This is all far more difficult than it should be, because France doesn't currently respect EU legislation on free movement of cars homologated in other EU countries.
In fairness, I'm not sure anyone else respects that legislation either.
'punt
I am not certain, but I think that it is the prefectural system that is much of the cause of problems for registering non-holomogated cars. It is because it is devolved that France can clam that and SVA from the UK means nothing in France, and also why varying taxes can be charged on imported cars.
France has yet to have a national vehicle registration system like the DVLA in the UK. A lot of power in France is devolved to the regions and departments, ensuring that inconsistencies are rife, bureaucracy is enlarged and hence inefficient.
I have mentioned previously a French guy who did obtain a single vehicle type approval on a Tiga kit car that he had built. The first time he went for the test, it did not pass and the jobsworth suggested he make an appointment for some time in the future. At the second appointment it was the same car, but a completely different guy, who was very enthusiastic about the car and passed it without comment.
France has yet to have a national vehicle registration system like the DVLA in the UK. A lot of power in France is devolved to the regions and departments, ensuring that inconsistencies are rife, bureaucracy is enlarged and hence inefficient.
I have mentioned previously a French guy who did obtain a single vehicle type approval on a Tiga kit car that he had built. The first time he went for the test, it did not pass and the jobsworth suggested he make an appointment for some time in the future. At the second appointment it was the same car, but a completely different guy, who was very enthusiastic about the car and passed it without comment.
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