France to Ban Sale and Use of Speed Camera Warning Systems
Discussion
It's a b
h isn't it? Got flashed at Chatellerault recently. The "warning sign" was set several meters back from the road 2 Km before the camera (I went back and checked) in a 90KM limit. The road at this point is dead straight and very wide with forest either side, no houses. The actual camera 2 Km later is in a 70Km zone and hidden 
as they often are here.
The actual warning was not "control automatique", it was "controls frequants" suggesting the occasional presence of gendarmes rather than a camera but do not be fooled! A gendarme told me that all of the new signs are marked "controls frequants" and that they would be placed much further away from the camera site do "avoid people slowing down then speeding up again". Yeah, right.
ETA Just seen you were talking about detector units but they're obviously talking about removing the warning panels too.
h isn't it? Got flashed at Chatellerault recently. The "warning sign" was set several meters back from the road 2 Km before the camera (I went back and checked) in a 90KM limit. The road at this point is dead straight and very wide with forest either side, no houses. The actual camera 2 Km later is in a 70Km zone and hidden as they often are here.The actual warning was not "control automatique", it was "controls frequants" suggesting the occasional presence of gendarmes rather than a camera but do not be fooled! A gendarme told me that all of the new signs are marked "controls frequants" and that they would be placed much further away from the camera site do "avoid people slowing down then speeding up again". Yeah, right.
ETA Just seen you were talking about detector units but they're obviously talking about removing the warning panels too.
Edited by Driller on Saturday 14th May 09:06
Breaking news fom The Times
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/ch...
You can tell there's an election coming up. President Sarkozy has just caved in to French drivers who believe they have a right to break the speed limit. It's an instructive tale that shows that France clings to its old culture of homicidal driving despite progress over the past decade.
The trouble started three weeks ago after there was a 20 percent leap in road deaths in April, capping a substantial rise since the beginning of the year. The Government announced a crackdown. This included the removal of advance signs that warn les automobilistes of the presence of all fixed speed cameras. Drivers are also to be banned from using devices to alert them electronically to traps. Hundreds of speed cameras have been installed since 2002, helping bring the death toll down by 47 percent to about 4,000, which puts France at the European average.
The removal of the signs and the outlawing of portable devices was seen by much of the public as a dirty trick. It is deemed simply unfair that you may now be caught speeding without warning. An Ifop poll showed that 68 percent of the French are opposed to the measures. Eighty members of parliament from Sarkozy's Union for a Popular Movement, rebelled, telling François Fillon, the Prime Minister, that they would cause trouble if he went ahead. Sarkozy and Fillon swore that they would not back down because lives were at stake. Then yesterday they backed down.
Claude Guéant, the Interior Minister and right-hand-man of Sarkozy, announced that the warning signs would only be removed after consultation with local authorities and that they would all be replaced by a new speed camera which will tell approaching motorists whether they are breaking the limit or not. That "instructive camera" will not impose any penalty, only the second one will do so if they fail to slow down. That sounds ridiculous, but it's true. Guéant's only qualification was that some of the "instructive cameras" might be placed a greater distance from the real speed trap than the old warning signs.
The safety associations are furious of course, but they carry less weight than Sarkozy's MPs a year before parliamentary elections (which follow the presidential one next May).
The logic of the fast-driving lobby is amusing. They claim that the signposting of speed cameras and the use of portable alerters, which also identify unmarked mobile cameras used by the Gendarmerie, actually encourage safer driving. This is supposedly because they make drivers slow down. But only until they get past the camera, known as a radar here, after which they can pick up speed again.
The improvement in driving habits has been noticeable in recent years. Since President Chirac made road safety a national priority in 2002, "fear of the gendarme" has slowed traffic and diminished somewhat some of the most lethal habits such as aggressive tailgating on motorways.
The speed cameras have caused exasperation because so many people are losing their licenses after losing all their 12 points because of a string of minor speeding tickets. Nearly five million drivers received tickets last year. Many people see the cameras as a plot by the state to raise money and harass the people rather than a measure to reduce the death-toll. Over five million use portable alert devices in their cars. The record-holding speed camera last year was one in the Doubs département which "flashed" nearly 13,000 speeding motorists.
There has been a visible reversion to old habits over the past year. On the 18-hour round-trip to the Cévennes 10 days ago I saw some breathtaking examples of old-style road-hoggery. Driving at the 90kph maximum on a Route Nationale in the mountains, I was repeatedly overtaken entering blind bends. The same stretch of road has about 10 spots marked with signs showing where previous overtakers have killed themselves or other people.
Still, things have changed a lot since the old days. Back in the 1960s, death and mutilation on the highway was taken as part of life. It even had a romantic side, with celebrities such as Albert Camus killing themselves, or maiming themselves, such as Françoise Sagan. Serge Gainsbourg glamourised death at the wheel with his song le Du Jazz Dans le Ravin. It's a great period piece.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/ch...
You can tell there's an election coming up. President Sarkozy has just caved in to French drivers who believe they have a right to break the speed limit. It's an instructive tale that shows that France clings to its old culture of homicidal driving despite progress over the past decade.
The trouble started three weeks ago after there was a 20 percent leap in road deaths in April, capping a substantial rise since the beginning of the year. The Government announced a crackdown. This included the removal of advance signs that warn les automobilistes of the presence of all fixed speed cameras. Drivers are also to be banned from using devices to alert them electronically to traps. Hundreds of speed cameras have been installed since 2002, helping bring the death toll down by 47 percent to about 4,000, which puts France at the European average.
The removal of the signs and the outlawing of portable devices was seen by much of the public as a dirty trick. It is deemed simply unfair that you may now be caught speeding without warning. An Ifop poll showed that 68 percent of the French are opposed to the measures. Eighty members of parliament from Sarkozy's Union for a Popular Movement, rebelled, telling François Fillon, the Prime Minister, that they would cause trouble if he went ahead. Sarkozy and Fillon swore that they would not back down because lives were at stake. Then yesterday they backed down.
Claude Guéant, the Interior Minister and right-hand-man of Sarkozy, announced that the warning signs would only be removed after consultation with local authorities and that they would all be replaced by a new speed camera which will tell approaching motorists whether they are breaking the limit or not. That "instructive camera" will not impose any penalty, only the second one will do so if they fail to slow down. That sounds ridiculous, but it's true. Guéant's only qualification was that some of the "instructive cameras" might be placed a greater distance from the real speed trap than the old warning signs.
The safety associations are furious of course, but they carry less weight than Sarkozy's MPs a year before parliamentary elections (which follow the presidential one next May).
The logic of the fast-driving lobby is amusing. They claim that the signposting of speed cameras and the use of portable alerters, which also identify unmarked mobile cameras used by the Gendarmerie, actually encourage safer driving. This is supposedly because they make drivers slow down. But only until they get past the camera, known as a radar here, after which they can pick up speed again.
The improvement in driving habits has been noticeable in recent years. Since President Chirac made road safety a national priority in 2002, "fear of the gendarme" has slowed traffic and diminished somewhat some of the most lethal habits such as aggressive tailgating on motorways.
The speed cameras have caused exasperation because so many people are losing their licenses after losing all their 12 points because of a string of minor speeding tickets. Nearly five million drivers received tickets last year. Many people see the cameras as a plot by the state to raise money and harass the people rather than a measure to reduce the death-toll. Over five million use portable alert devices in their cars. The record-holding speed camera last year was one in the Doubs département which "flashed" nearly 13,000 speeding motorists.
There has been a visible reversion to old habits over the past year. On the 18-hour round-trip to the Cévennes 10 days ago I saw some breathtaking examples of old-style road-hoggery. Driving at the 90kph maximum on a Route Nationale in the mountains, I was repeatedly overtaken entering blind bends. The same stretch of road has about 10 spots marked with signs showing where previous overtakers have killed themselves or other people.
Still, things have changed a lot since the old days. Back in the 1960s, death and mutilation on the highway was taken as part of life. It even had a romantic side, with celebrities such as Albert Camus killing themselves, or maiming themselves, such as Françoise Sagan. Serge Gainsbourg glamourised death at the wheel with his song le Du Jazz Dans le Ravin. It's a great period piece.
The original clamp down from Chirac was the result of 5 pompiers (Firemen) being killed by a speeding 80 yearold while attending an accident on a motorway bridge over a river. I believe that one of the men was knocked into the river and they never recovered his body. There was a big state funeral and Chirac vowed to stop the carnage on the roads. I remember it well as the following month I was caught by one of the road speed traps that before then were very sparse.
My boss maintains that with all of the speed cameras and traps he is loosing some of his skills at driving. That is the biggest load of tosh I have ever heard as I have seen no evidence of him having any car control skills at all unless you count being able to drive, make a phone call and fiddle with the satnav.
Chris
My boss maintains that with all of the speed cameras and traps he is loosing some of his skills at driving. That is the biggest load of tosh I have ever heard as I have seen no evidence of him having any car control skills at all unless you count being able to drive, make a phone call and fiddle with the satnav.
Chris
at the both of you
I can't understand the mentality (or lack of) of those who complain about speeding fines. The limits exist. That's the law. We break them and risk losing points or even licences. Speed limits are not there for revenue, they are there for safety.
If you don't want to pay income tax, don't work. If you don't want to pay TVA, don't buy goods and services. And if you don't want to get speeding fines, don't speed.
I'm sick of hearing whinging poms complaining about how many fines they have had to pay. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Go back to the UK. See if that is any better. In fact we all know it is far worse.
If you don't want to pay income tax, don't work. If you don't want to pay TVA, don't buy goods and services. And if you don't want to get speeding fines, don't speed.
I'm sick of hearing whinging poms complaining about how many fines they have had to pay. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Go back to the UK. See if that is any better. In fact we all know it is far worse.
allyn said:
I can't understand the mentality (or lack of) of those who complain about speeding fines. The limits exist. That's the law. We break them and risk losing points or even licences. Speed limits are not there for revenue, they are there for safety.
If you don't want to pay income tax, don't work. If you don't want to pay TVA, don't buy goods and services. And if you don't want to get speeding fines, don't speed.
I'm sick of hearing whinging poms complaining about how many fines they have had to pay. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Go back to the UK. See if that is any better. In fact we all know it is far worse.
so where would the world be now if the population bowed down and accepted everything that was thrown at them by their government? Are you seriously suggesting that no laws should ever be questioned?If you don't want to pay income tax, don't work. If you don't want to pay TVA, don't buy goods and services. And if you don't want to get speeding fines, don't speed.
I'm sick of hearing whinging poms complaining about how many fines they have had to pay. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Go back to the UK. See if that is any better. In fact we all know it is far worse.
Le Pop said:
That'll be THIS methinks...
doesn't surprise me. they would have you 'interrogated' at the boulangerie if they could .... having a french mother and going to the cote every year since i can remember i have seen France turn from what was quite a liberal country into a place of extreme rules in an attempt to be more like their own delusional version of 'germanic' .... and its far from german !
the old gallic 'vive la différence' is long dead thanks to the latest gen of politicians and eurocrats.
its a real shame....
Interesting. I'm not too sure if Tom Tom can remove my POIs as they are supplied by a third party (www.pocketgpsworld.com if you are interested... very good). I also question whether if I renamed the relevant POIs as places of outstanding natural beauty or rubbish bins or whatever, then how would the gendarmes prosecute?
I reckon this is one of those French laws that you'll never see enforced, a bit like spare sets of bulbs, red triangles, headlamp deflectors and flourescent jackets, none of which I've ever been asked for even after being breathalised twice (both clear I hasten to add!) and busted by roadside gendarmes (twice) in France for speeding
Latest from Connexion says that "Rules on the radar alert devices have been clarified – new ones sold in France will in the future have to be certified suitable by the government. In fact police do not have powers to check on software on the old ones or on smartphones, however, in theory people who have these should not activate camera-checking functions. The government says in any case, they will eventually become obsolete if they are not updated". Mine is updated regularly...
Read full article HERE
I reckon this is one of those French laws that you'll never see enforced, a bit like spare sets of bulbs, red triangles, headlamp deflectors and flourescent jackets, none of which I've ever been asked for even after being breathalised twice (both clear I hasten to add!) and busted by roadside gendarmes (twice) in France for speeding
Latest from Connexion says that "Rules on the radar alert devices have been clarified – new ones sold in France will in the future have to be certified suitable by the government. In fact police do not have powers to check on software on the old ones or on smartphones, however, in theory people who have these should not activate camera-checking functions. The government says in any case, they will eventually become obsolete if they are not updated". Mine is updated regularly...
Read full article HERE
Edited by Le Pop on Saturday 7th January 09:19
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