Is Britain actually getting worse?

[Shay HTFC]

There are so many posts about Britain getting worse, becoming a police state and so and so. Now is this because it actually is? Or in the last depression, did everyone complain and say the same stuff, but without the aid of the internet and 24 hour news?

For the record, I think its going to the dogs, regardless of the current economic climate and I think that 24 hour news/TV and the internet connecting so many opinionated people from across the nation (rather than before, you'd only get the opinion of geographically close people really) are tools that have raised alot more awareness than in previous times.

So in essence, is all this complaining talk of the UK dying just part of a cycle that comes around every now and again?

[Jasandjules]

There are more and more draconian and preposterous laws which prejudice our civil liberties.

[AlexKP]

This is actually a very interesting question.

In fact it is the key question.

On balance, the UK probably isn't getting worse in general, but I think it is fair to say it could and should be a whole lot better than it is.

Certain social problems though are getting worse - petty crime, violent crime, benefits dependency, social division etc.

[Nobody You Know]

Our freedom really is being eroded.

Our money is genuinely being wasted to a shocking degree, more than ever before.

Our Government are more out of touch and incompetent than ever before.

Our governments policies really have lead to a country swamoed with ignorance, laziness and stupidity.

I'm genuinely sad about it.

[cazzer]

Shay HTFC said:

So in essence, is all this complaining talk of the UK dying just part of a cycle that comes around every now and again?

Yup, pretty much every time we're at the latter stages of a labour government and it all starts to unravel as usual.

[Jasandjules]

cazzer said:

Shay HTFC said:

So in essence, is all this complaining talk of the UK dying just part of a cycle that comes around every now and again?

Yup, pretty much every time we're at the latter stages of a labour government and it all starts to unravel as usual.

Sadly too true. The rapid expansion of the state requires paying for, then it all goes t**s up...

[AlexKP]

cazzer said:

Shay HTFC said:

So in essence, is all this complaining talk of the UK dying just part of a cycle that comes around every now and again?

Yup, pretty much every time we're at the latter stages of a labour government and it all starts to unravel as usual.

Being non-partisan for a moment, I think this is true of all governments - red or blue. After ten years in power they are all weighed down with sleeze, incompetence and mired in the mistakes they made early on in their tenure.

In short they are tired and need to be replaced. It is a far from perfect system.

[Sheets Tabuer]

I'm usually pretty laid back and don't give two hoots about anybody or anything but I have to say this government scares me.

The rise of the chav is also bringing this country down, when I grew up you really did leave your door open now I'd make sure my mouth was closed if I went to sleep as the feckers would have your teeth.

I say that as a person who grew up on a council estate.

[skip_1]

+1

Although i'm not so old you could leave the door open

[Martial Arts Man]

anonymous said:

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I agree in principal, however sleaze doesn't increase my tax rate, so I'll take sleaze over rampant, out of control gov't spending any day!

[turbobloke]

anonymous said:

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Good point!

In terms of the OP, it went to the dogs a long time ago - they ate it and had stomach problems, now the resulting turd is festering in a corner alongside this weekend's puddles of puke and p!ss in a High Street shop doorway.

[swamp]

I think the UK is becoming not a police state, but a database state:

e-borders
ID cards
All email, phone and internet usage soon to be recorded
CCTV *everywhere*
ANPR (automatic numberplate recognition)
Road cameras
Oyster cards (London Underground etc.)

Not to mention ECHELON... (plus a few more things)

I don't think it is sinister, as such. It's just that after every terrorist incident or organised crime bust the authorities will always say that the information to catch these people was there all along, or that if they had have captured certain data they would have stopped such and such.

Don't underestimate the power of data warehousing technologies: just look at how good Google is. When all this information is in hand the authorities will be able to identify terrorists based on *patterns* of behaviour. Of course there will be cock ups and false positives, people dragged out their beds at 4am by armed police because they bought some fertiliser at the garden centre in the same month their son went to pakistan...

I put it down to laziness. These things will help track terrorists and organised criminals from the comfort of an office. The question is do we want it?

[turbobloke]

swamp said:

These things will help track terrorists and organised criminals from the comfort of an office. The question is do we want it?

They will? They won't! Ask the people of Madrid and elsewhere.

Won't work, don't want it but thanks for not asking us Mr Meltdown Brown.

[AlexKP]

anonymous said:

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You paint a lovely picture!



Have you considered emigrating if you feel that strongly? If not, why not?

Genuine question.

[turbobloke]

anonymous said:

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Genuine answer then The trouble is, the picture I painted is wideapread and accurate...

I like aspects of the part of the UK where I have a home, I'll still have business interests here for a few years yet, and the usual family & friend ties. So, I don't think I'll ever upsticks completely and emigrate.

On similar threads to this, starting about two to three years ago, I've described my response: get a couple of places, including one non-EU, to go and spend time where civilisation is still alive and well at a basic interpersonal level, where the sun shines about 300 days a year or more, the temperature range is mostly 20 deg C to 50 deg C, and where there is still reasonable driving to be had, either road and circuit or both. So far so good.

On another thread today I described enjoying being here (Cheltenhamshire) much more positively, but places and opportunities to enjoy anything are diminishing increasingly rapidly, along with - and due to - too many freedoms lost, and declining standards of public decency.

[AlexKP]

I understand.

It is pretty much solely the friends and family ties that keep me here too.

I do worry though that many places that might seem to be better on the face of it aren't quite so rosy once you start living there.

I have travelled quite widely, and would consider a few places such as Canada (we have family already there) and certain parts of Europe (Scandinavia, Germany) etc.

Just seems a shame to have to leave the country of one's birth because of the mistakes of politicians and scoial engineers...

[Plotloss]

We're a laughing stock.

A nation of appalling grasping bone idle plebs too timid to invoke change, too lazy to rebel or improve.

I am utterly convinced and have been for some time to be fair that there are significantly less than one million genuinely decent right thinking British people left in this country.

[turbobloke]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

As mentioned, leave yes but return too from time to time, since for my part I can't see a permanent retreat over the horizon!

I only have 2 to 3 years of experience to base my reply on, but each time I return from either of the 'retreats' it's extremely depressing: due to the uncivilised behaviour of too many boorish individuals, the weather, the political incompetence, the dirty smelly and generally unhpleasant urban environment everywhere, and maybe I forget to mention the weather. Driving here is being made more and more unpleasant, the News is depressing nearly every day, and did I mention the weather?

Then I get back to business, take time out to visit PH of course and also meet family and friends e.g. to go for a drink at the kind of place I did this afternoon on a glorious spring day. That reminds me why I won't be leaving for good, but it's all too soon that I can't wait to get away again.

As time goes by, away is definitely going to win out over home more and more, as I just don't see the current situation as being amenable to reversal. Not even by a wet lettuce wearing a lime green tie. As Plotloss just said, well, he said it!

[AlexKP]

Plotloss said:

We're a laughing stock.

A nation of appalling grasping bone idle plebs too timid to invoke change, too lazy to rebel or improve.

I am utterly convinced and have been for some time to be fair that there are significantly less than one million genuinely decent right thinking British people left in this country.

I can't agree with that appallingly bleak view of society Plotloss (if I did I think I'd hop on the next plane to anywhere...)

I think the vast majority of UK Citizens (I prefer that term to "subjects") are generally decent and "right thinking". But the problem is that we have been too weak in our government and allowed the small but very active negative minority to impact upon all levels of society.

According to the Police Federation, around 90% of crime in the UK is perpetrated by around 300,000 persistent offenders. If this is correct, then it is an appalling indictment of governmental inaction over a long period of time.

We need to build more prisons, establish penal colonies and adopt a three strikes and you are out, for good, rule.

Remove the hardcore scrotes and the PF say crime would fall more than 80% overnight...

Astonishing if true.

[Plotloss]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You may prefer it but it's not factually correct and talk like that puts you dangerously close to falling outside the million.