Right to Protest v civil liberties
Discussion
Islamic Fundementalists and BNP clash in Luton - Part 2.
Conservative MP David Davies has called on abusive protests against serving military personnel to be outlawed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7943486.stm
So a man who resigned as Shadow Home Secretary because of the errosion of civil liberties wants to ban protests he doesn't agree with.
Conservative MP David Davies has called on abusive protests against serving military personnel to be outlawed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7943486.stm
So a man who resigned as Shadow Home Secretary because of the errosion of civil liberties wants to ban protests he doesn't agree with.
Fittster said:
Islamic Fundementalists and BNP clash in Luton - Part 2.
Conservative MP David Davies has called on abusive protests against serving military personnel to be outlawed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7943486.stm
So a man who resigned as Shadow Home Secretary because of the errosion of civil liberties wants to ban protests he doesn't agree with.
He's a politician, they all desperately want to be popular, what did you expect?Conservative MP David Davies has called on abusive protests against serving military personnel to be outlawed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7943486.stm
So a man who resigned as Shadow Home Secretary because of the errosion of civil liberties wants to ban protests he doesn't agree with.
As for these protests, let them continue, just ban police intervention
Fittster said:
So a man who resigned as Shadow Home Secretary because of the errosion of civil liberties wants to ban protests he doesn't agree with.
You do realise that this is another David Davis, not the one who was formerly Shadow Home Sectretary?Anyway I kind of have mixed feelings. Of course there should be a right to protest but in these situations then we know that an anti-war protest will certainly cause anger among the troops supporters.
Civil liberties means just that. You might not agree with someone elses point of view, but you have to respect the right they have for believing it.
I do think a line should be drawn at people who incite hatred and want to promote violence, regardless of their religous leanings.
I don't like the idea of people demonstrating against troops, but that's the price we pay. What I would like to see is anti-hatred rules being used equally.
I do think a line should be drawn at people who incite hatred and want to promote violence, regardless of their religous leanings.
I don't like the idea of people demonstrating against troops, but that's the price we pay. What I would like to see is anti-hatred rules being used equally.
While the Luton protest was (to me) objectionable in the extreme, I don't think they should be legislated against, for the following reasons:
The protesters' aim may have been to provoke an over-reaction from the police, the public and possibly even the marching troops, and they may have achieved a partial success. They have certainly provoked heated debate. But all they have really done is make themselves look foolish and, unfortunately, embarrass the majority of the Muslim community in the UK.
We have more than enough laws as it is. There exist plenty of laws that can be used (misused?) against protesters that overstep the mark.
Most importantly, when we give government the power to pick and choose who can protest and about what we are treading a dangerous and very slippery path. One day it might be your or my opinion that isn't allowed to be voiced.
The protesters' aim may have been to provoke an over-reaction from the police, the public and possibly even the marching troops, and they may have achieved a partial success. They have certainly provoked heated debate. But all they have really done is make themselves look foolish and, unfortunately, embarrass the majority of the Muslim community in the UK.
We have more than enough laws as it is. There exist plenty of laws that can be used (misused?) against protesters that overstep the mark.
Most importantly, when we give government the power to pick and choose who can protest and about what we are treading a dangerous and very slippery path. One day it might be your or my opinion that isn't allowed to be voiced.
Protest needs to be limited to genuinely peaceful demonstration, and no more.
When it becomes abusive, or in any way affects normal people trying to go about their business, then it's out of order.
As an example, those idiots who break into industrial/commercial premises and chain themselves to things should expect to be treated no differently to someone who breaks in and steals things.
When it becomes abusive, or in any way affects normal people trying to go about their business, then it's out of order.
As an example, those idiots who break into industrial/commercial premises and chain themselves to things should expect to be treated no differently to someone who breaks in and steals things.
esselte said:
NDA said:
People should not protest against the troops. It's the war that some people want to protest about, not the young soldiers putting their lives on the line - it's not the soldiers who created the war...
Yes why don't they go and demonstrate close to Parliament?..oh wait...The relevant David Davies - not the ex-shadow Minister.
ETA As I said on the thread about logging travel plans, I am beginning to be suspicious of the motives behind the 'homecoming parades' such as the infamous one in Luton and others elsewhere. I fully support the forces in their activities, the men and women are indeed brave (if not always actual heroes), but the Iraq war itself is another matter. I suspect, cynic that I am becoming, that HMG/G.Brown is hoping that the not unnatural patriotism that many feel towards the armed forces will, somehow, be confused with support for the miltary ambitions of the government. A sort of latter-day Falklands effect. It's fine for a regiment from Aldershot, say, to be welcomed back by the locals, but why Luton? Is Luton a garrison town? I didn't think so - maybe I'm wrong. Under this lot I smell bandwagon politics everywhere.
ETA As I said on the thread about logging travel plans, I am beginning to be suspicious of the motives behind the 'homecoming parades' such as the infamous one in Luton and others elsewhere. I fully support the forces in their activities, the men and women are indeed brave (if not always actual heroes), but the Iraq war itself is another matter. I suspect, cynic that I am becoming, that HMG/G.Brown is hoping that the not unnatural patriotism that many feel towards the armed forces will, somehow, be confused with support for the miltary ambitions of the government. A sort of latter-day Falklands effect. It's fine for a regiment from Aldershot, say, to be welcomed back by the locals, but why Luton? Is Luton a garrison town? I didn't think so - maybe I'm wrong. Under this lot I smell bandwagon politics everywhere.
Edited by motco on Sunday 15th March 10:41
I am definitely in the camp of despising everything that the protesters were spouting - but the minute that we stop people having that right then we have completely lost to that totalitarian view, and from there it is but a hop, skip and a jump to stopping everyone doing anything that the Politburo don't like.
I was also appalled when the Old Bill hid the protestors against the Chinese premier a few years ago to pretend that it wasn't happening and to spare blushes.
I'm sorry, but a key role of the police is to facilitate lawful protest too.
I was also appalled when the Old Bill hid the protestors against the Chinese premier a few years ago to pretend that it wasn't happening and to spare blushes.
I'm sorry, but a key role of the police is to facilitate lawful protest too.
Sheets Tabuer said:
Having a law to stop protests towards the army and police is a rather more dangerous law than it appears.
I don't agree with their protest but the right to protest is an absolute right that all people in the UK should and do enjoy.
I don't agree with their protest but the right to protest is an absolute right that all people in the UK should and do enjoy.
Well said. I agree with certain lunatic followers of Islam having the right to protest. It shows them to be the idiot fringe of that religion. They only harm themselves and their cause by doing it.Anyone who has ever seen a far right rally in progress (I did once, during a visit to Germany in the early 90's) will testify that the same applies to those clowns. What a lovely collection of dross that was.
The soldiers aren't themselves responsible for the decisions of a government; they're merely the tools.
I agree with the sentiment he expresses but such a ban would have wider implications on the rights of individuals to protest - can you imagine a police parade, and certain uneducated officers removing placards at such an event?
For that reason alone, I'd say no to such a ban.
I agree with the sentiment he expresses but such a ban would have wider implications on the rights of individuals to protest - can you imagine a police parade, and certain uneducated officers removing placards at such an event?
For that reason alone, I'd say no to such a ban.
I'd suggest that the freedoms of speech, expression and protest should extend as far as but stop at preaching hate and violence.
I'd also suggest that the very survival of a right to such freedoms of speech.expression and protest is dependent on that boundary being clearly advertised and enforced rigourously.
It matters not who you are, where you come from or what your politics are. If you step the wrong side of the boundary you should expect the full force of the law to drag you back.
I'd also suggest that the very survival of a right to such freedoms of speech.expression and protest is dependent on that boundary being clearly advertised and enforced rigourously.
It matters not who you are, where you come from or what your politics are. If you step the wrong side of the boundary you should expect the full force of the law to drag you back.
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