Customs charge on a birthday gift from the US

[diesel head]

My brother has an american girlfriend she has sent him a birthday pressie, which didn't arrive but what did was a a letter from parcelforce saying that customs have placed a charge on the package of £16 and the parcelforce have added a further £8 for the pleasure of telling us.

We can't have the parcel until this charge of £23 has been paid, this seems really unfair as it is a gift. We have no idea what is in it but suspect there is a birthday card suggesting its a gift.

Does anyone have any experience of challenging customs on this and can we re-claim the parcelforce charge as well??

[TheMighty]

The "gift" part is irrelevant at the moment to C&E by what I remember. If she's stated the correct value on the parcel in the US then you'll be taxed on that value when it arrives here unless its under £37 which is the current "lets forget than one" value. This is set to rise next April to somewhere just over £100 I believe.

[Helluvaname]

I think it is £37 at the moment, but from 1/12/08 goods to the value of £105 can be imported from outside the EU free of Customs Duty, however VAT is still due on any goods with a value over £18.

Edited by Helluvaname on Thursday 16th October 21:46

[Nickyboy]

Gift value is £36 and commercial value is £18, anything over that is taxable unfortunately.

[Simpo Two]

£16 is less than £18, so I suggest you educate Porcelfarce of this fact.

My VAT notes (Sep 08) state: 'Currently, goods with a value of £18 or less can be imported from countries outside the EU free of customs duty and VAT.'

Black and white, case closed.

Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 16th October 21:52

[V8mate]

Parcelforce are breaking the law. They know this, but do it nonetheless.

They are not allowed to refuse to deliver your parcel. The debt you owe them is a civil one and if you don't pay it they would have to take you to the small claims section of the County Court.

Will go and find the exact Act and clause to quote to them and post back.


ETA

No duty of items below £18.

My Bold for clarity


Postal Services Act 2000

s83 Interfering with the mail: postal operators (1) A person who is engaged in the business of a postal operator commits an offence if, contrary to his duty and without reasonable excuse, he—
(a) intentionally delays or opens a postal packet in the course of its transmission by post, or
(b) intentionally opens a mail-bag.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to the delaying or opening of a postal packet or the opening of a mail-bag under the authority of—
(a) this Act or any other enactment (including, in particular, in pursuance of a warrant issued under any other enactment), or
(b) any directly applicable Community provision.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to the delaying or opening of a postal packet in accordance with any terms and conditions applicable to its transmission by post.
(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to the delaying of a postal packet as a result of industrial action in contemplation or furtherance of a trade dispute.
(5) In subsection (4) “trade dispute” has the meaning given by section 244 of the [1992 c. 52.] Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 or Article 127 of the [S.I. 1995/1980 (N.I.12).] Trade Union and Labour Relations (Northern Ireland) Order 1995; and the reference to industrial action shall be construed in accordance with that Act or (as the case may be) that Order.
(6) [b]A person who commits an offence under subsection (1) shall be liable—
(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both,
(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both.[/b]

s104 Inviolability of mails (1) Subsection (2) applies to—
(a) a postal packet,
(b) anything contained in a postal packet, and
(c) a mail-bag containing a postal packet,
which is not the property of the Crown but which is in the course of transmission by post.

(2) Anything to which this subsection applies shall have the same immunity from—
(a) examination, or seizure or detention, under a relevant power conferred by virtue of this Act or any other enactment,
(b) seizure under distress or in execution,
(c) in Scotland, any diligence, and
(d) retention by virtue of a lien,
as it would have if it were the property of the Crown.


If they refuse to deliver it, tell them you are calling the Police (and be prepared to do so!)

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 16th October 22:11

[uriel]

Simpo Two said:

£16 is less than £18, so I suggest you educate Porcelfarce of this fact.

My VAT notes (Sep 08) state: 'Currently, goods with a value of £18 or less can be imported from countries outside the EU free of customs duty and VAT.'

Black and white, case closed.

Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 16th October 21:52

No, the charge is £16, not the value of the item being imported.

[Nickyboy]

V8mate said:

Parcelforce are breaking the law. They know this, but do it nonetheless.

They are not allowed to refuse to deliver your parcel. The debt you owe them is a civil one and if you don't pay it they would have to take you to the small claims section of the County Court.

Will go and find the exact Act and clause to quote to them and post back.

Err i think Parcelforce know what they are doing, the parcel belongs to them by law until any such charges are paid

[V8mate]

Nickyboy said:

V8mate said:

Parcelforce are breaking the law. They know this, but do it nonetheless.

They are not allowed to refuse to deliver your parcel. The debt you owe them is a civil one and if you don't pay it they would have to take you to the small claims section of the County Court.

Will go and find the exact Act and clause to quote to them and post back.

Err i think Parcelforce know what they are doing, the parcel belongs to them by law until any such charges are paid

And which laws would those be?

[carmonk]

I won a workstation from the US recently after winning a competition. I was hit with a £175 customs charge. It hardly seems fair. Still, fk it, I sold it on ebay the next week.

[ridds]

I rejected an order from Amazon because of this (plus it had been squashed on the way over).

Their charge was more than the customs duty due the robbing gits.

Took 6 months for the refund to come from Amazon.

[Simpo Two]

uriel said:

Simpo Two said:

£16 is less than £18, so I suggest you educate Porcelfarce of this fact.

My VAT notes (Sep 08) state: 'Currently, goods with a value of £18 or less can be imported from countries outside the EU free of customs duty and VAT.'

Black and white, case closed.

Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 16th October 21:52

No, the charge is £16, not the value of the item being imported.

Ah. Damn.

In that case it will have been calculated on the declared value.

[Nickyboy]

V8mate said:

If they refuse to deliver it, tell them you are calling the Police (and be prepared to do so!)

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 16th October 22:11

Yeah try that one lol

You'll find it isnt covered by the same regulations as mail and as Parcelforce have it, it isnt being handled by Royal Mail so those regulations dont apply.

Parcelforce is a parcel delivery company the same as UPS, DHL, TNT who apparently are braking the law when they hold packages, which we do every day of the year for one reason or another.

[Simpo Two]

Nickyboy said:

You'll find it isnt covered by the same regulations as mail and as Parcelforce have it, it isnt being handled by Royal Mail so those regulations dont apply.

So they're not 'postal operators'... hmm.

[jamoor]

Nickyboy said:

V8mate said:

If they refuse to deliver it, tell them you are calling the Police (and be prepared to do so!)

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 16th October 22:11

Yeah try that one lol

You'll find it isnt covered by the same regulations as mail and as Parcelforce have it, it isnt being handled by Royal Mail so those regulations dont apply.

Parcelforce is a parcel delivery company the same as UPS, DHL, TNT who apparently are braking the law when they hold packages, which we do every day of the year for one reason or another.

Last time I checked Parcelforce were part of Royal Mail.

UPS DHL TNT are fully private companies so they can do whatever the hell they like for all I care, Royal Mail aren't however.

[Nickyboy]

No, they are parcel/package delivery companies or what ever they want to call themselves. To be classed a postal company you have to handle and process over a certain percentage of mail, they currently do none or very little, all their mail is handled/sorted by royal mail

[V8mate]

Nickyboy said:

V8mate said:

If they refuse to deliver it, tell them you are calling the Police (and be prepared to do so!)

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 16th October 22:11

Yeah try that one lol

You'll find it isnt covered by the same regulations as mail and as Parcelforce have it, it isnt being handled by Royal Mail so those regulations dont apply.

Parcelforce is a parcel delivery company the same as UPS, DHL, TNT who apparently are braking the law when they hold packages, which we do every day of the year for one reason or another.

And they get away with it simply because of most people's ignorance of the law. The only body who can delay delivery of a letter or parcel are Customs and Excise; or the postal operator if they believe the item contains 'contraband' and intend to pass it to C&E.

The 2000 Act was brought in specifically because of the deregulated market for the delivery of 'post'. It doesn't matter whether it's a letter or a parcel.

[Nickyboy]

jamoor said:

Nickyboy said:

V8mate said:

If they refuse to deliver it, tell them you are calling the Police (and be prepared to do so!)

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 16th October 22:11

Yeah try that one lol

You'll find it isnt covered by the same regulations as mail and as Parcelforce have it, it isnt being handled by Royal Mail so those regulations dont apply.

Parcelforce is a parcel delivery company the same as UPS, DHL, TNT who apparently are braking the law when they hold packages, which we do every day of the year for one reason or another.

Last time I checked Parcelforce were part of Royal Mail.

UPS DHL TNT are fully private companies so they can do whatever the hell they like for all I care, Royal Mail aren't however.

You said it, PART of. Owned by the same people but operated seperately.

[philthy]

It is supposed to be a handling charge ie, making sure that customs get their wedge, because parcelforce will be liable for it etc etc. It's all bks really. Quite simply, it is a charge by a courier company (they all do it).
If you don't pay it, the delivery guy will simply chuck (literally) it in the returns bin. It will then take at least a month being returned to the states, where the USPS will charge for its return.
I kid you not !
This is HMRC you are dealing with, they can pretty much do what they want to you.
My guess, is your girlfriend has bought you a nice pressie, declared its full value, and been stung. If she had simply declared it as a gift of no value, it might have slipped through. Doesn't stop them checking it and deciding on its value themselves though.

I know how you feel. My wife sent 50 DVD's to Bulgaria, and declared the retail value (despite being told not to), and they wanted an enormous sum in duties. We simply abandoned the consignment, and sent another as commercial samples (which they were). Surprise surprise, the postie turns up and gives me them back for free as they had been marked incorrectly.

[Famous Graham]

philthy said:

This is HMRC you are dealing with.

No it isn't. Parcelforce do it all themselves (apart from random audits) and pay HMRC on your behalf (well, so they say, anyway)