Job / Career advice (again)
Discussion
Rightio - apologies first as I know there are lots of this type of question on here!
I'm 27 and have been in my current job for the last two years - it started as a grauate career and has progressed to where I am now. I don't thinkthe progression has been how it was intended but there have been a fair few ups and downs recently, quite alot of redundancies etc.
Anyway - top and bottom of it is i'm in a position that is safe for the time being, pay is not brilliant and despite numerous promises I am still on mu graduate trainee contract. The role is not a bad one, i work from a remote site so pretty much get to plan my own days and manage myself, i also get a company car, and laptop.
anyways while things were up and down at the company and redundancies were on the cards i started applying for other roles. I had the final stage interview for one of these today.
The new position will be a similar role but without the independance - i'll be working in a team at a set office with planned hours.
The new job pays more - at least 12k more. But without a car and as i say without the perks of being able to plan my own working time. Its also shift based 7 days a week.
But if i do get this role i can't decide to take it or not??!!!
In my current role, i'm fairly well known accross the group, having working in a fair few departments and progression should hopefully be possible. As long as things dont go pear shaped.
ETA: The role in the new job is more of a safe role, prob without the scope for progression. I'd just be another guy within the company.
The current company is nationwide, motor related an currently employs circa 900 people (a drop of about 500 6 months ago), the new job is a multinational company employing about 50,000 people.
I'm 27 and have been in my current job for the last two years - it started as a grauate career and has progressed to where I am now. I don't thinkthe progression has been how it was intended but there have been a fair few ups and downs recently, quite alot of redundancies etc.
Anyway - top and bottom of it is i'm in a position that is safe for the time being, pay is not brilliant and despite numerous promises I am still on mu graduate trainee contract. The role is not a bad one, i work from a remote site so pretty much get to plan my own days and manage myself, i also get a company car, and laptop.
anyways while things were up and down at the company and redundancies were on the cards i started applying for other roles. I had the final stage interview for one of these today.
The new position will be a similar role but without the independance - i'll be working in a team at a set office with planned hours.
The new job pays more - at least 12k more. But without a car and as i say without the perks of being able to plan my own working time. Its also shift based 7 days a week.
But if i do get this role i can't decide to take it or not??!!!
In my current role, i'm fairly well known accross the group, having working in a fair few departments and progression should hopefully be possible. As long as things dont go pear shaped.
ETA: The role in the new job is more of a safe role, prob without the scope for progression. I'd just be another guy within the company.
The current company is nationwide, motor related an currently employs circa 900 people (a drop of about 500 6 months ago), the new job is a multinational company employing about 50,000 people.
Edited by dan1981 on Wednesday 10th September 20:57
Fido - i guess the safer job is probabaly the new one. But possibly a case of better the devil you know? I get the feeling i'm fairly well thougth of in the current role but you never know....
bga - If the new role paid the same no I wouldn't go for it.
Swilly / outlaw biker - the money is a big factor here - 12k is about a 70% raise on what i'm on now! so it is a pretty big factor. I lose the benefits in my current role but i guess the money outweighs this??? i guess....
Engineer1 - my career at the moment is somewhat general - i'm turnign my hand to alot of things in my current role. I gues at the moment i'm a supply chain / logistics planner / analyst. The new role would be "logistics planner" no extra bits that i pick up here and there in the current role.
bga - If the new role paid the same no I wouldn't go for it.
Swilly / outlaw biker - the money is a big factor here - 12k is about a 70% raise on what i'm on now! so it is a pretty big factor. I lose the benefits in my current role but i guess the money outweighs this??? i guess....
Engineer1 - my career at the moment is somewhat general - i'm turnign my hand to alot of things in my current role. I gues at the moment i'm a supply chain / logistics planner / analyst. The new role would be "logistics planner" no extra bits that i pick up here and there in the current role.
Edited by dan1981 on Wednesday 10th September 21:01
The first job change after a graduate position I found difficult - you convince yourself that you're making a name for yourself where you are, you'd have to start all over again somewhere else, the new company won't be as good as where you are blah blah blah.
It's all rubbish
Once you've moved you'll wonder why you hadn't done it before - if you're any good you'll make a name for yourself in the new company very quickly, it will open up other opportunities because you haven't been labelled as anything, and the next job move will be much easier
It's all rubbish
Once you've moved you'll wonder why you hadn't done it before - if you're any good you'll make a name for yourself in the new company very quickly, it will open up other opportunities because you haven't been labelled as anything, and the next job move will be much easier
dan1981 said:
bga - If the new role paid the same no I wouldn't go for it.
I've gone for the money before & know lots of people have. Unless it's enough to make a real material difference to your life then I would warn against making the change.This one company may offer you another job with more pay, it's fair enough to assume that you will be able to get another role offering the extra money & a job which enthuses you. You spend so much of your day at work that you might as well enjoy it or make sure that it is a means towards a goal (if you are lucky you can get both)
bga said:
dan1981 said:
bga - If the new role paid the same no I wouldn't go for it.
I've gone for the money before & know lots of people have. Unless it's enough to make a real material difference to your life then I would warn against making the change.This one company may offer you another job with more pay, it's fair enough to assume that you will be able to get another role offering the extra money & a job which enthuses you. You spend so much of your day at work that you might as well enjoy it or make sure that it is a means towards a goal (if you are lucky you can get both)
Edited by dan1981 on Thursday 11th September 09:20
You say you think you are well thought of in your current role...... If you were that well thought of by the people that count, why are you still on a graduate trainee contract?
I don't mean you are bigging yourself up, but if you're doing a good job, why aren't they recognising it and rewarding you with at the very least, a proper contract?
You said your self they keep making promises, but have yet to take any action.
Perhaps have a quiet word with your boss, and ask if anything is in the pipeline regarding your contract and/or a possible pay rise, and say it may be a factor in your deciding on whether to take the other job , should you get offered it. Explain that you're not blackmailing him for a pay rise, but that it's a genuine factor to be taken into consideration. After all, being well thought of doesn't pay the bills.
I don't mean you are bigging yourself up, but if you're doing a good job, why aren't they recognising it and rewarding you with at the very least, a proper contract?
You said your self they keep making promises, but have yet to take any action.
Perhaps have a quiet word with your boss, and ask if anything is in the pipeline regarding your contract and/or a possible pay rise, and say it may be a factor in your deciding on whether to take the other job , should you get offered it. Explain that you're not blackmailing him for a pay rise, but that it's a genuine factor to be taken into consideration. After all, being well thought of doesn't pay the bills.
In addition to what has been said, if you are indeed well thought of they will try to keep you.
Explain your position to your manager - that you feel salary-wise things aren't developing as you hoped. Tell him you've interviewed for a similar position in another company and been offered a large increase in salary which reflects your current skillset.
Then, just look at him and stay quiet. See how he responds. They should try to keep you with a counter offer.
Explain your position to your manager - that you feel salary-wise things aren't developing as you hoped. Tell him you've interviewed for a similar position in another company and been offered a large increase in salary which reflects your current skillset.
Then, just look at him and stay quiet. See how he responds. They should try to keep you with a counter offer.
dan1981 said:
As I say the money is a big increase for me, and probabaly would make a fairly big change to my life.
So would 7-day shifts and no autonomy. Sounds a bit like you're falling in to the trap of focusing only on one factor.If you hate being micro-managed, play weekend sports or if Friday and Saturday nights out are important to you, you need to have a think about whether you can swallow losing that for £12k.
If you have a girlfriend, talk to her about shifts as well - working different hours is harder than it looks, and if you follow the general PH view of 'kicking her in the face' at the first sign of difficulties, then you're going to be single.
hornetrider said:
In addition to what has been said, if you are indeed well thought of they will try to keep you.
Explain your position to your manager - that you feel salary-wise things aren't developing as you hoped. Tell him you've interviewed for a similar position in another company and been offered a large increase in salary which reflects your current skillset.
Then, just look at him and stay quiet. See how he responds. They should try to keep you with a counter offer.
Good advice, but I wouldn't do this until you've got a written offer from the other lot. There's a chance your manager might say 'thank God for that, the company's struggling and we've been stretching things to keep you on', and offer you a really great reference.Explain your position to your manager - that you feel salary-wise things aren't developing as you hoped. Tell him you've interviewed for a similar position in another company and been offered a large increase in salary which reflects your current skillset.
Then, just look at him and stay quiet. See how he responds. They should try to keep you with a counter offer.
I have to agree with hornetrider here as the one thing I didn’t do was speak to my old company and just handed in my notice and left. It turns out they where looking to offer me a new job doing what I am doing now and I think the old company was better.
I did however make the right decision (by luck) as they shut the old company down am moved it back to Russia and fired anyone not Russian!
I did however make the right decision (by luck) as they shut the old company down am moved it back to Russia and fired anyone not Russian!
bracken78 said:
I have to agree with hornetrider here as the one thing I didn’t do was speak to my old company and just handed in my notice and left. It turns out they where looking to offer me a new job doing what I am doing now and I think the old company was better.
Companies will often want to keep employees as it is more cost effective than finding a replacement (advertising) and training them can take time and resources.As Rude Girl says, it is best to approach boss and discuss leaving and negotiate an increase in salary and improvement in terms and conditions of employment or role within the company once you have a secure offer from another firm.
Write a list - daft as it sounds - of pros and cons of both jobs. Also ask yourself where you want to be in say 2, 5, 10 years time. Then take a good hard look and see which offers the better prospects.
Shifts can be useful especially if you have kids, however if you are single/without kids them the unsocial aspect can be a pain. There is usually a Shift allowance aspect to the salary which you need to take account of in the case of moving jobs or coming off shifts for the same comapny. Holiday's are also different as you have to take account of weekends and Bank Holidays you work.
Thanks all so far.
I have spoken to my manager in the past and got reassurances that I was about to get my new contract, then a sister company went tits up causing a massive drop in sales etc and leading to the redundancies etc accross the group. So obviously now doesn't seem to be the best time to bring the subject up again.....
The shift thing on the face of it worries me a little but i think i could get on with them and i've spoken to the girlfriend and we seem to think we could cope with it.
Yes the 12k raise is above my normal salary now and on top of that their is the shift allowance. I just have the nagging feeling inside that i'm gonna move, the company i'm with at the moment will weather the storms and I would have been in an ideal position if i'd stuck around..... then the other half of me says.. hold look at whats happened in the last 6 months... you might turn this new role down - if you get it and if not this one then maybe another one... and the next day my p45 turns up in the post.....
I have spoken to my manager in the past and got reassurances that I was about to get my new contract, then a sister company went tits up causing a massive drop in sales etc and leading to the redundancies etc accross the group. So obviously now doesn't seem to be the best time to bring the subject up again.....
The shift thing on the face of it worries me a little but i think i could get on with them and i've spoken to the girlfriend and we seem to think we could cope with it.
Yes the 12k raise is above my normal salary now and on top of that their is the shift allowance. I just have the nagging feeling inside that i'm gonna move, the company i'm with at the moment will weather the storms and I would have been in an ideal position if i'd stuck around..... then the other half of me says.. hold look at whats happened in the last 6 months... you might turn this new role down - if you get it and if not this one then maybe another one... and the next day my p45 turns up in the post.....
It sounds like your current company hasn't kept their promise and the current climate is making the future look uncertain. If you really believe that you are of great value to them then yes, stick with it. But if you think that they are going to offer nothing but empty promises in future then perhaps now is the right time to make a move. As someone else said, you'll no doubt make the move and wonder why you never did it sooner.
If the other job doesn't work out then there is nothing to say that with good references and a good CV you won't get an equally good job elsewhere. It is a tough call but only you can make the decision after a good hard think. The fact that you have the support of your girlfriend is excellent.
If the other job doesn't work out then there is nothing to say that with good references and a good CV you won't get an equally good job elsewhere. It is a tough call but only you can make the decision after a good hard think. The fact that you have the support of your girlfriend is excellent.
dan1981 said:
i work from a remote site so pretty much get to plan my own days and manage myself, i also get a company car, and laptop.
The new position will be a similar role but without the independance - i'll be working in a team at a set office with planned hours.
The new job pays more - at least 12k more. But without a car and as i say without the perks of being able to plan my own working time. Its also shift based 7 days a week.
I'd just be another guy within the company.
The current company is nationwide, motor related an currently employs circa 900 people (a drop of about 500 6 months ago), the new job is a multinational company employing about 50,000 people.
First the money. What's it worth. I'm assuming you pay company car tax, so The 12K after tax is worth what ? £8K, plus what you save in company car tax, Say £1500 so £9.5K, plus the 'profit' if you use your own car for company miles (Over 10 years I've averaged about £600 a year after I've paid fuel and general servicing) The new position will be a similar role but without the independance - i'll be working in a team at a set office with planned hours.
The new job pays more - at least 12k more. But without a car and as i say without the perks of being able to plan my own working time. Its also shift based 7 days a week.
I'd just be another guy within the company.
The current company is nationwide, motor related an currently employs circa 900 people (a drop of about 500 6 months ago), the new job is a multinational company employing about 50,000 people.
Edited by dan1981 on Wednesday 10th September 20:57
So lets call that £10K in your hand.
You have to knock off the cost of running a car. Now in the banger market, I've got away with about £1000 a year, for tax, insurance, servicing and repairs, and no real depreciation, but if you are unlucky call it £600 a year
So Effectively if you buy a 10 year old astra for £600 and use it for business miles, the job is worth about £8.5K in your hand. £163 a week? £700 a month.
Work it out.
The Lap top ? worth nothing !!
So over say 3 years if you saved it all You'd have over £25K in the bank.
Is it worth giving up the independence and flexibility you have now ? Can you get some sort of flexi time and home working in the negotiation (My dad worked in IT for the NHS, had a really good flexitime system AND worked from home 1 day a week)
The shift work, does that pay extra on top ? of the basic, or does the basic reflect it? How much do you value your weekends and nights ?
The bit about working for a big company vs a little one. All I can say is that the career progression in a big company once you manage to leave a site behind is massive. I've met some fairly good corporate guys well above me in my organisation and they are on what I would see as super salaries. And yes they are good, but on a good day I could be better.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff