Eco heating systems
Discussion
Does anyone in here have any experience of these or know anyone that does? I'm looking at replacing an oil hungry heating system in a Victorian rural property and as I am getting a lot of conflicting advice I need a balanced and impartial view.
And before anyone starts, no, I haven't gone green and I'm not going to start wearing lentils or weaving yoghurt. I just figure if I spend less on heating oil, I'll have more money to spend on petrol
And before anyone starts, no, I haven't gone green and I'm not going to start wearing lentils or weaving yoghurt. I just figure if I spend less on heating oil, I'll have more money to spend on petrol
Try here...
http://www.trustedtradesmen.com/forum/forum_topics...
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=7&...
and for real renewable stuff
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/
http://www.trustedtradesmen.com/forum/forum_topics...
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=7&...
and for real renewable stuff
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/
...and GordonSeriously I would consider the solar panels that are fixed to your roof and heat the water up. Not to be confused by the electrical panels which are a rip-off and will take you at least twenty years to see any of your money back.
The water systems use vacuum filled glass tubes which have a copper pipe inside them which is filled with glycol. They heat up under the sun and the hot liquid travels to the top. The connection to the manifold gets so hot in a few seconds that if you touched it you would burn yourself. In one panel typically you would get 10-15 glass 'collectors'. To complete the system you would need about 4 panels for a 4 bedroom house, a seperate circulation pump, a special cylinder that has two heating coils or annualars - one for the solar and one for central heating, and a thermostat/timer.
I went down this route with the elctric Photo ones as well. My stupid council negated to grant planning permission because they did not fit in with current surroundings
Do a serch for solar water heaters with 'evacuated tubes' and have a read. 5 years ago I spent £16k on both systems but the water only system costed about £3k and would have paid for itself in a few years. Still beats me why all houses are not forced to fit them as they do work. I am sure someone will come along that has them fitted
The water systems use vacuum filled glass tubes which have a copper pipe inside them which is filled with glycol. They heat up under the sun and the hot liquid travels to the top. The connection to the manifold gets so hot in a few seconds that if you touched it you would burn yourself. In one panel typically you would get 10-15 glass 'collectors'. To complete the system you would need about 4 panels for a 4 bedroom house, a seperate circulation pump, a special cylinder that has two heating coils or annualars - one for the solar and one for central heating, and a thermostat/timer.
I went down this route with the elctric Photo ones as well. My stupid council negated to grant planning permission because they did not fit in with current surroundings
Do a serch for solar water heaters with 'evacuated tubes' and have a read. 5 years ago I spent £16k on both systems but the water only system costed about £3k and would have paid for itself in a few years. Still beats me why all houses are not forced to fit them as they do work. I am sure someone will come along that has them fitted
Edited by SS HSV on Thursday 4th September 22:06
Sryously I wouldnt consider solar heating for a house. For hot water it can help but even in NZ where we get lots more sun and warmer days solar heating fails (unless you've a TON of thermal insulation).
Ground sourced heat pump is the best for uK if you cant generate your own electricity, or a wood burner with wetback.
Ground sourced heat pump is the best for uK if you cant generate your own electricity, or a wood burner with wetback.
Did think about using chavs and pikeys for fuel, but apparently that is not on; something to do with "yooman rites innit"
Suggested options and disadvantages seems to be as follows:
Ground source heat pump - needs three phase supply. We only have single! Also works best with underfloor heating but we have a mixture of wooden floors and tiled floors and are not prepared to dig them up. Can cost a mint to run in terms of the electricity required for the pump.
Biomass - i.e wood pellets, wood chips or logs. The latter seems a good possibility, although there is a manual labour issue. Using pellets or chips requires reliance on deliveries from third party suppliers and I can forsee that as they become more widely used the price will rise considerably.
Solar - seems to be a no brainer as far as hot water is concerned, although it has been suggested to us that it can be used in conjunction with a heat exchanger and a thermal store to deliver heating as well as hot water. I have my doubts that this is possible but there is a hotel in Cheltenham that I am going to go and have a look at because they have just such a system which delivers about 70% of their requirements for heating and hot water.
Current best equation seems to be keep the oil fired system for really cold weather but have a log fired boiler in conjunction with solar panels. 'Tis not in fact that easy to be green after all!
Suggested options and disadvantages seems to be as follows:
Ground source heat pump - needs three phase supply. We only have single! Also works best with underfloor heating but we have a mixture of wooden floors and tiled floors and are not prepared to dig them up. Can cost a mint to run in terms of the electricity required for the pump.
Biomass - i.e wood pellets, wood chips or logs. The latter seems a good possibility, although there is a manual labour issue. Using pellets or chips requires reliance on deliveries from third party suppliers and I can forsee that as they become more widely used the price will rise considerably.
Solar - seems to be a no brainer as far as hot water is concerned, although it has been suggested to us that it can be used in conjunction with a heat exchanger and a thermal store to deliver heating as well as hot water. I have my doubts that this is possible but there is a hotel in Cheltenham that I am going to go and have a look at because they have just such a system which delivers about 70% of their requirements for heating and hot water.
Current best equation seems to be keep the oil fired system for really cold weather but have a log fired boiler in conjunction with solar panels. 'Tis not in fact that easy to be green after all!
Solar water panels will work well in the UK for hot water ONLY, and you'll still need a boiler as backup.
Added 4 panels to my swimming pool a couple of years back, based on a 2 year pay-back. I did the install my self using pumps and a heatexchanger off ebay (stainless steel boiler heat exchanger for about £30!) It gets hot enough to bring 42000 litres up from 12C to 18C in about a month lol.
Seriously, get em, fit em, and say b
ks to the council. I used Navitron evacuated tubes.
Added 4 panels to my swimming pool a couple of years back, based on a 2 year pay-back. I did the install my self using pumps and a heatexchanger off ebay (stainless steel boiler heat exchanger for about £30!) It gets hot enough to bring 42000 litres up from 12C to 18C in about a month lol.
Seriously, get em, fit em, and say b
ks to the council. I used Navitron evacuated tubes.The Londoner said:
Ground source heat pump - needs three phase supply.
There are plenty of single phase heat pumps on the market.http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/homeowner/product...
Vacuum tubes are going out of favour, apparantly the German market is moving back to flat panel due to robustness, phase change storage is available for solar but would be problematic to retrofit.
First thing to do is keep the heat in, insulate well, if you have cavities get them insulated, make sure you have good loft insulation, and insulate under floor if you have suspended floors, then get rid of the drafts around doors/windows.
Modern woodburners are efficient and cheap if you have a good source of wood, also look at modern boilers which are v efficient although don't be taken in by the hype around condensing boilers, if you have an old radiator system it won't run anywhere near the temperatures needed to condense.
First thing to do is keep the heat in, insulate well, if you have cavities get them insulated, make sure you have good loft insulation, and insulate under floor if you have suspended floors, then get rid of the drafts around doors/windows.
Modern woodburners are efficient and cheap if you have a good source of wood, also look at modern boilers which are v efficient although don't be taken in by the hype around condensing boilers, if you have an old radiator system it won't run anywhere near the temperatures needed to condense.
Plenty of single phase Ground OR air source heatpumps on the market.... (You can run a three phase on a decent single phase converter...(Around about a grand)....
I have recently completed a project installing an air source heat pump into quite a large property in North Wales..The house demand is 17Kw,.....For most of the year the Air source heatpump copes admirably for HW and CH......And it only consumes 2.5Kw...
Email me if you are desperate for more information, im tired and cant type tonight
I have recently completed a project installing an air source heat pump into quite a large property in North Wales..The house demand is 17Kw,.....For most of the year the Air source heatpump copes admirably for HW and CH......And it only consumes 2.5Kw...
Email me if you are desperate for more information, im tired and cant type tonight
Buy an acre or two http://www.woods4sale.co.uk/.
Every year plant enough saplings to supply yourself with enough trees for your annual usage.
Install a wood burning stove and back boiler. Enjoy very cheap, renewable and zero carbon fuel.
http://www.the-tree.org.uk/TreeCultivation&Use...
Every year plant enough saplings to supply yourself with enough trees for your annual usage.
Install a wood burning stove and back boiler. Enjoy very cheap, renewable and zero carbon fuel.
http://www.the-tree.org.uk/TreeCultivation&Use...
Edited by B17NNS on Thursday 4th September 23:38
gareth h said:
First thing to do is keep the heat in, insulate well, if you have cavities get them insulated, make sure you have good loft insulation, and insulate under floor if you have suspended floors, then get rid of the drafts around doors/windows.
Modern woodburners are efficient and cheap if you have a good source of wood
Best advice here for me.Modern woodburners are efficient and cheap if you have a good source of wood
I live in France and in the last 2 years they have brought in a category rating for houses in terms of how well they are insulated and how much energy they use to heat. My last house I sold was rates G/G (its the same rating scale as friges etc) not good. My annual heating/elec bill was around 3200 euro a year. My new house is rated at B/C and the same bill is 1700 euro. Go figure.
bosshog said:
gareth h said:
First thing to do is keep the heat in, insulate well, if you have cavities get them insulated, make sure you have good loft insulation, and insulate under floor if you have suspended floors, then get rid of the drafts around doors/windows.
Modern woodburners are efficient and cheap if you have a good source of wood
Best advice here for me.Modern woodburners are efficient and cheap if you have a good source of wood
I live in France and in the last 2 years they have brought in a category rating for houses in terms of how well they are insulated and how much energy they use to heat. My last house I sold was rates G/G (its the same rating scale as friges etc) not good. My annual heating/elec bill was around 3200 euro a year. My new house is rated at B/C and the same bill is 1700 euro. Go figure.
If you have access to wood, a wood burner is a good solution for plenty of heat.
On the eco front, the technologies are still developmental, which means that they are unduly expensive and not as efficient as they will be shortly.
Contact Worcester Boilers. They have a very good little CD ROM that gives you a video introduction to various systems they offer, of which the most effective seems to be the ground sourced heat pump solution. You can also look at solar water heating systems, and photovoltaic cells. Redland offer a photovoltaic system built into their roof tiles. All of these are quite expensive to install compared with what you get back, at present.
Alternatively, just turn the fking heating down a bit and learn to live with cold. It isn't that bad so long as you are not a woman, and probably healthier.
Is that balanced enough for you?
On the eco front, the technologies are still developmental, which means that they are unduly expensive and not as efficient as they will be shortly.
Contact Worcester Boilers. They have a very good little CD ROM that gives you a video introduction to various systems they offer, of which the most effective seems to be the ground sourced heat pump solution. You can also look at solar water heating systems, and photovoltaic cells. Redland offer a photovoltaic system built into their roof tiles. All of these are quite expensive to install compared with what you get back, at present.
Alternatively, just turn the f
king heating down a bit and learn to live with cold. It isn't that bad so long as you are not a woman, and probably healthier.Is that balanced enough for you?
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