Graduate Schemes
Discussion
Are they honestly worth the effort? Sat here filling in stuff for the DESG and I have to go through a load of hoops to apply, including a technical presentation bang smack in the middle of my finals. I'm wondering what these companies offer over the ones that just want a copy of your CV? I'm bored of telling them how my cat showed teamwork and dedication in a difficult situation...
A necessary evil IMO mate. I believe most well known companies now have fairly torturous recruitment processes including multiple tests, interviews, group exercises etc. I guess it comes down to the level of competition although it would help if they agreed on a common format for application forms so you didn't have to do the same thing, but slightly different, over and over again. The timing sucks as well but I don't see any way of avoiding clashes with coursework or exams during a final year.
Just be glad you're not doing the kind of degree where the interview for the job will include the words "do you want fries with that".......
Just be glad you're not doing the kind of degree where the interview for the job will include the words "do you want fries with that".......
IME it's all part of working your way into one of the bigger engineering firms. It's probably worth the effort to get in, just because of the breadth of career choices available once you get in. In my first graduate job (with a large British AErospace company) I was able to change jobs within the company every six months for the first two years til I found a role that fitted me.
And going through the recruitment machine will be a good start to getting used to the laborious, awkward processes that govern getting anything at all done in the big engineering firms...
And going through the recruitment machine will be a good start to getting used to the laborious, awkward processes that govern getting anything at all done in the big engineering firms...
xiphias said:
I just fail to understand why I need to fill in all this crap, when my father managed to change jobs with just an interview or two for a job earning three times as much. I guess it shows how little a degree is worth now.
Not really. Your father has likely to have proved himself in a variety of jobs and is therefore a known quantity. These companies don't know you from Adam. You have to expect to be subjected to some scrutiny before they invest in you. IMO it's as hard, if not harder, to get a foot in the door vs climbing the ladder once you're in (assuming you're capable of doing so).xiphias said:
I'm bored of telling them how my cat showed teamwork and dedication in a difficult situation...
Oh this is SO true. Why do companies persist in asking questions like this? They MUST know that all they will get from a bunch of students whose most meaningful work experience is, at best, a 1 year placement, yet more realisticaly probably the odd bit of bar or retail work is grossly exagerated stories of group coursework triumph or at worst a complete fabrication anyway?One of the things that annoys me is the repetition of the bog standard stuff in each form, yet its slightly different in how its set out so you can't just copy and paste.
I realise that you are applying for a job and you have to show willingness, but surely companies realise that applicants are filling in 10-20 forms at the same time as writing dissertations, taking exams etc, so why can't the process be more streamlined??
I realise that you are applying for a job and you have to show willingness, but surely companies realise that applicants are filling in 10-20 forms at the same time as writing dissertations, taking exams etc, so why can't the process be more streamlined??
littlegreenfairy said:
One of the things that annoys me is the repetition of the bog standard stuff in each form, yet its slightly different in how its set out so you can't just copy and paste.
I realise that you are applying for a job and you have to show willingness, but surely companies realise that applicants are filling in 10-20 forms at the same time as writing dissertations, taking exams etc, so why can't the process be more streamlined??
Sad to say the 'real world' does require you to answer the same questions again and again. Because in most jobs, most of the people you will come across and have to work with are knuckle-dragging cocktards.I realise that you are applying for a job and you have to show willingness, but surely companies realise that applicants are filling in 10-20 forms at the same time as writing dissertations, taking exams etc, so why can't the process be more streamlined??
Coming up with entertaining, fresh-sounding, positively phrased ways of answering the same old shite is a key skill for the future.
And with that nugget of blue sky can-do attitude, I'm going to bed.
Lots of technical companies are doing themselves no favours with such graduate recruitment nonsense. The HR departments are allowed to run riot with graduate recruitment and don't they just tear the arse out of it. Every graduate has to have fantastic communication skills, tip top leadership potential, multi-cultural awareness etc etc etc.
Where would that leave the quiet guy in the corner who might just have invented the next whatever widget.
The result is that most technical companies now don't recruit engineers, they recruit managers with an engineering degree.
How many old school engineers do you know with top notch communication skills?
Where would that leave the quiet guy in the corner who might just have invented the next whatever widget.
The result is that most technical companies now don't recruit engineers, they recruit managers with an engineering degree.
How many old school engineers do you know with top notch communication skills?
Sadly you still have a fair bit of nonsense when applying for another job 10 years down the line in your career, if you apply to most large companies.
Not in having to fill out individual application forms, but in all the standard HR questions, where you have to parrot the same responses over and over again. 'What are your strengths and weaknesses?' etc, and etc.
My favourite interviews were with smaller firms where I could actually TALK to the Principal Partner. He would ask me about my experience and then fill me in on the role, without all that HR bullshit.
Not in having to fill out individual application forms, but in all the standard HR questions, where you have to parrot the same responses over and over again. 'What are your strengths and weaknesses?' etc, and etc.
My favourite interviews were with smaller firms where I could actually TALK to the Principal Partner. He would ask me about my experience and then fill me in on the role, without all that HR bullshit.
It is par for the course, especially if you want to get a graduate position with one of the top 10 graduate recruiters. Which, if you do, will stand your C.V. in good stead for many years to come - yes it's mostly bollox but, depending on what you want to do can pay dividends.
Edited by parakitaMol. on Monday 21st January 08:55
Olf said:
Lots of technical companies are doing themselves no favours with such graduate recruitment nonsense. The HR departments are allowed to run riot with graduate recruitment and don't they just tear the arse out of it. Every graduate has to have fantastic communication skills, tip top leadership potential, multi-cultural awareness etc etc etc.
Where would that leave the quiet guy in the corner who might just have invented the next whatever widget.
The result is that most technical companies now don't recruit engineers, they recruit managers with an engineering degree.
How many old school engineers do you know with top notch communication skills?
Probably a similar situation with most accountancy firms. In many cases the guy/girl who can master the technical requirements of the job and work hard in what can be, particularly at the junior level, a tedious job, is not that likely to have the most outgoing personality. Where would that leave the quiet guy in the corner who might just have invented the next whatever widget.
The result is that most technical companies now don't recruit engineers, they recruit managers with an engineering degree.
How many old school engineers do you know with top notch communication skills?
xiphias said:
I just fail to understand why I need to fill in all this crap, when my father managed to change jobs with just an interview or two for a job earning three times as much. I guess it shows how little a degree is worth now.
they probably want to check if your any good, rather then the typical grad who thinks they know everything, but really knows nothing and wants a huge salary because they got pissed for 3 years.Simple answer is, don't fill the forms in, if it pisses you off that much then your probably not right for the job.
JagLover said:
Sadly you still have a fair bit of nonsense when applying for another job 10 years down the line in your career, if you apply to most large companies.
Not in having to fill out individual application forms, but in all the standard HR questions, where you have to parrot the same responses over and over again. 'What are your strengths and weaknesses?' etc, and etc.
My favourite interviews were with smaller firms where I could actually TALK to the Principal Partner. He would ask me about my experience and then fill me in on the role, without all that HR bullshit.
Oh how true that is. Having entered the engineering world 30 odd years ago, on the graduate type schem with a major engineering co., I would advise don't do it. Go for smaller businesses where you are far more likely to use your knowleadge, get real job satisfaction, and get learn new skills far faster than in any big co. Avoid HR departments at all costs. They just want nice smooth round pegs to slot into all those holes, for a life of tedium.Not in having to fill out individual application forms, but in all the standard HR questions, where you have to parrot the same responses over and over again. 'What are your strengths and weaknesses?' etc, and etc.
My favourite interviews were with smaller firms where I could actually TALK to the Principal Partner. He would ask me about my experience and then fill me in on the role, without all that HR bullshit.
The thing is you don't have to do it - work somewhere else. Having been on the other side of this, having graduates imposed on you who cannot add up or cannot write the most basic of reports, I am in favour of GR schemes.
I have every right to expect that graduates that work for me will not be stupid monkeys with absolutely no skills whatsoever; I simply do not have the time to teach them the skills that they should have learned at school. At least the graduate selection process goes some way to weed out the morons who somehow manage to obtain a degree.
It really boils my p1ss when graduates complain about the effort they have to go to get on one of these schemes as they offer fantastic opportunities that a lot of people don't get. One thing to remember is that when your dad started work, it was easy to sack someone if they were a f*ckwit. Now its extremely difficult so employers have to protect themselves.
I have every right to expect that graduates that work for me will not be stupid monkeys with absolutely no skills whatsoever; I simply do not have the time to teach them the skills that they should have learned at school. At least the graduate selection process goes some way to weed out the morons who somehow manage to obtain a degree.
It really boils my p1ss when graduates complain about the effort they have to go to get on one of these schemes as they offer fantastic opportunities that a lot of people don't get. One thing to remember is that when your dad started work, it was easy to sack someone if they were a f*ckwit. Now its extremely difficult so employers have to protect themselves.
Are they worth it? Yes, in the long term.
You've got to see it from the employer's perspective. There is an ever-growing glut of graduates, year upon year, entering the job market with only a few weeks' work experience under their belts, applying for jobs looking for 'graduate jobs'.
Word of advice - graduate jobs are not for fresh graduates. I found this out the hard way, applying for graduate job after graduate job and taking loads of time off work to go down to London, spending £50 a pop on the train, only to be told the same 'not enough experience' line.
Then I got myself onto a graduate training scheme that gave you a work placement and took one day out every two weeks for training. The money seemed pitiful, barely enough to get me by, and I had to stay with my parents, but eventually, I had a decent block of time doing that job with a company, so I could put it on my CV.
Six months later, next couple of interviews, they both offered me a job a day later and I could choose between them. Compare that to the situation pre-graduate training, I probably went to well over 25 interviews all over the country and got nowhere.
For long-term gain, graduate training is essential IME.
You've got to see it from the employer's perspective. There is an ever-growing glut of graduates, year upon year, entering the job market with only a few weeks' work experience under their belts, applying for jobs looking for 'graduate jobs'.
Word of advice - graduate jobs are not for fresh graduates. I found this out the hard way, applying for graduate job after graduate job and taking loads of time off work to go down to London, spending £50 a pop on the train, only to be told the same 'not enough experience' line.
Then I got myself onto a graduate training scheme that gave you a work placement and took one day out every two weeks for training. The money seemed pitiful, barely enough to get me by, and I had to stay with my parents, but eventually, I had a decent block of time doing that job with a company, so I could put it on my CV.
Six months later, next couple of interviews, they both offered me a job a day later and I could choose between them. Compare that to the situation pre-graduate training, I probably went to well over 25 interviews all over the country and got nowhere.
For long-term gain, graduate training is essential IME.
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