since when has cutting someones throat been ABH?
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4617310.stm
this annoys me. the guy cuts someones throat and is done for ABH and gets 18 months?
surely its attempted murder? i mean - cutting someones throat is pretty serious - and what sort of message does this send out? its trivilising a very serious crime.
this annoys me. the guy cuts someones throat and is done for ABH and gets 18 months?
surely its attempted murder? i mean - cutting someones throat is pretty serious - and what sort of message does this send out? its trivilising a very serious crime.
Well, it's a question of degrees. See I slash my throat almost every time I shave. If I was a barber I'd be Sweeney Todd 
Now cutting a throat is a bit like slitting wrists. You can do it the poncy girly way where you just nick the skin and a bit of blood ensues, or you do it the Marine-approved way where you stick your knife in at the elbow and draw it down to the wrist. This causes so much carnage that Holby City would have to have stunt doubles for the film crew.
To properly cut someone's throat (ie the 'Commando' method) you yank the head back and start sawing, and you don't stop till the only thing keeping the head on is the last bit of sinew behind the spine. Someone with just a severed windpipe can still make a lot of noise, you see...
Now cutting a throat is a bit like slitting wrists. You can do it the poncy girly way where you just nick the skin and a bit of blood ensues, or you do it the Marine-approved way where you stick your knife in at the elbow and draw it down to the wrist. This causes so much carnage that Holby City would have to have stunt doubles for the film crew.
To properly cut someone's throat (ie the 'Commando' method) you yank the head back and start sawing, and you don't stop till the only thing keeping the head on is the last bit of sinew behind the spine. Someone with just a severed windpipe can still make a lot of noise, you see...
The CPS downsize the charge to ensure a conviction.
Regretably, if they tried for manslaughter there would have been a chance he walked away free.
Knife attacks are seriously on the increase.
And is a very personal method of injuring/killing another person which the law fails to recognise
>> Edited by maxed on Tuesday 17th January 00:14
Regretably, if they tried for manslaughter there would have been a chance he walked away free.
Knife attacks are seriously on the increase.
And is a very personal method of injuring/killing another person which the law fails to recognise
>> Edited by maxed on Tuesday 17th January 00:14
Its a bit late and im knackered but before I call it a night ill try and answer this one..
The way the guy would have been investigated, charged and prosecuted would have run like this.
Did the victim suffer serious injury? In this instance, although it is not clear from the link youve provided..lets presume yes..i.e his skin was cut and blood flowed, even if only a little..etc
Scenario 1) Serious injury was caused, and there was an intention to cause serious injury by the defendant so he would have been charged with be charged with S18 Offences against the person act 1861, (Maliciously wounding with intent)
Scenario 2)If the defendant didnt *really* intend to wound or forsee some physical harm, but serious injury did still ensue,then he would be liable for s20. This would have been charged because the defendant would have been aware of the possibility of causing the victim some physical harm - but not serious harm.This therefore is the offence of malicious wounding and maliciously inflicting GBH. This is the case where the wound sustained consists of a complete break of the layers of the victims skin (JCC v Eisenhower 84), or any form of accepted 'serious harm' R v Saunders 85.
Scenario 3)If the defendant DIDNT foresee some physical harm or intend to wound but DID intended to touch or frighten the victim, and serious injury still resulted, he would have been charged with the lesser offence of S47 OAPA (Assault occasioning actual bodily harm).
The way the guy would have been investigated, charged and prosecuted would have run like this.
Did the victim suffer serious injury? In this instance, although it is not clear from the link youve provided..lets presume yes..i.e his skin was cut and blood flowed, even if only a little..etc
Scenario 1) Serious injury was caused, and there was an intention to cause serious injury by the defendant so he would have been charged with be charged with S18 Offences against the person act 1861, (Maliciously wounding with intent)
Scenario 2)If the defendant didnt *really* intend to wound or forsee some physical harm, but serious injury did still ensue,then he would be liable for s20. This would have been charged because the defendant would have been aware of the possibility of causing the victim some physical harm - but not serious harm.This therefore is the offence of malicious wounding and maliciously inflicting GBH. This is the case where the wound sustained consists of a complete break of the layers of the victims skin (JCC v Eisenhower 84), or any form of accepted 'serious harm' R v Saunders 85.
Scenario 3)If the defendant DIDNT foresee some physical harm or intend to wound but DID intended to touch or frighten the victim, and serious injury still resulted, he would have been charged with the lesser offence of S47 OAPA (Assault occasioning actual bodily harm).
maxed said:
if they tried for manslaughter..
>> Edited by maxed on Tuesday 17th January 00:14
it might be late and I might have had a couple of beers tonight, but if the chap didnt die - the CPS would have had a devil of a job in charging the defendant in this case with Manslaughter when A) manslaugher can only be charged when someones *actually* been killed and b)that killing was because of provocation, diminished responsibility, infanticide or a suicide pact.
Since the chap didnt actually die, and would have needed little more than a trip to the A&E and some sticking tape and bandages and stiches at the worse - a charge of manslaughter would have been out of the question..
wedg1e said:
To properly cut someone's throat (ie the 'Commando' method) you yank the head back and start sawing, and you don't stop till the only thing keeping the head on is the last bit of sinew behind the spine. Someone with just a severed windpipe can still make a lot of noise, you see...
Nice
princeperch said:
Since the chap didnt actually die, and would have needed little more than a trip to the A&E and some sticking tape and bandages and stiches at the worse - a charge of manslaughter would have been out of the question..
What about GBH. Doesn't that sit between ABH and manslaughter?
princeperch said:
Since the chap didnt actually die, and would have needed little more than a trip to the A&E and some sticking tape and bandages and stiches at the worse - a charge of manslaughter would have been out of the question..
thats my point though - this thing could of been so much more serious than it was. Thank god the victim didn't lose his life at the end of the day - but he probably wishes that someone trying to cut his throat hadn't tested the bluntness of their blade on him.
this guy should of been sent down for years to show that testing your blade on someone is not right. its downright wrong regardless of whether he did lasting damage.
could all the people of PH please raise their hand if they carry a knife or have slit someones throat? I doubt whether a single regular PHer could raise their hand.
tinman0 said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4617310.stm
this annoys me. the guy cuts someones throat and is done for ABH and gets 18 months?
He hasn't got 18 months it's been suspended, he won't spend a single day in jail for trying to kill someone.
We need a purge of these scum who call themselves judges.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Tuesday 17th January 08:38
"he jumped out of his car and shouted at him. "
So just how disabled is this guy
"Williams, a former civil servant, admitted causing actual bodily harm and having a bladed weapon in public."
Ahh that explains everything
"Alarmingly, he went back to his car, lit a cigarette and waited 30 minutes for his wife to arrive."
What a nut job
18 months suspended for 18 months WTF in the words of another t
t
"Tough on crime , tough on the cause´s of crime "
>> Edited by marki on Tuesday 17th January 08:43
So just how disabled is this guy
"Williams, a former civil servant, admitted causing actual bodily harm and having a bladed weapon in public."
Ahh that explains everything
"Alarmingly, he went back to his car, lit a cigarette and waited 30 minutes for his wife to arrive."
What a nut job
18 months suspended for 18 months WTF in the words of another t
t "Tough on crime , tough on the cause´s of crime "
>> Edited by marki on Tuesday 17th January 08:43
"Sentencing, Judge Roderick Denyer said: "If you put a knife to a person's neck there is a serious risk of killing them.
"Your wife and son are also disabled and you have to care for them.
"If I locked you up it would have a devastating effect on them.""
And of course having a psycopath around the house must be doing them the world of good.
"Your wife and son are also disabled and you have to care for them.
"If I locked you up it would have a devastating effect on them.""
And of course having a psycopath around the house must be doing them the world of good.
t1grm said:
Since the chap didnt actually die, and would have needed little more than a trip to the A&E and some sticking tape and bandages and stiches at the worse - a charge of manslaughter would have been out of the question..
What about GBH. Doesn't that sit between ABH and manslaughter?
no it sits next to wedgie
wedg1e said:
Have the lambs stopped screaming yet, Clarice?
wedg1e said:
To properly cut someone's throat (ie the 'Commando' method) you yank the head back and start sawing, and you don't stop till the only thing keeping the head on is the last bit of sinew behind the spine. Someone with just a severed windpipe can still make a lot of noise, you see...
looks like someone will know how to stop them properly now.
time to carry an 18 inch maglite in the car methinks! tinman0 said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4617310.stm
this annoys me. the guy cuts someones throat and is done for ABH and gets 18 months?
surely its attempted murder? i mean - cutting someones throat is pretty serious - and what sort of message does this send out? its trivilising a very serious crime.
The judges need to take some responsibility here,they have a scale of sentancing, why dont they use the absolute extreme to get the message across?.
Last week i posted on another thread about some to**er local to me that slashed a young guys face with a broken bottle,the victim needed to have his face sown up from his mouth to his ear.
The case went to court just before christmas and the victim looked on in disgrace as the judge handed down justice,the attacker didnt even get a jail term,WHY?,because it was ......Christmans ,yet the victim has to carry a scar around for the rest of his life on top of which he has had his public confidence shattered.
It made the local news because of the absurdity of the punishment.
Recently(last week i think) 15 miles away in Reading an I.T. guy walking home from town got the same punishment,slashed from mouth to ear again and had to have half his face sown back up.
Now these were totally unrelated offences,but do you think the second lot of attackers really cared if they had got caught before commiting the offence ,if they had seen the news?.
These judges need to make a stand!!,they owe it to the British public to protect the British public and scapegoats need to be made,we need to make sacrifices and what better subjects do we have than the guilty...,give one or two or even a handfull of these cowards a Ten year term,and if advertised properly by the media hopefully we can avoid a reocurrence of all these cowardly violent attacks with knives and bottles.
And if anyone other than the victim shouts unfair,then take them to a notorious familiar area to this sort of crime,show them a dark street and say "There you go ile pick you up two miles down the road".
:getsdownfromsoapbox:
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