Discussion
PhillVR6 said:
Chaps and Chapesses,
IHave an idea for a product. I have done some initial research on the net and have not found anything similar produced.
What should be my next steps in terms of determining its validity and protecting the idea?
Thanks,
Phill.
I have done this before.
You need to draw up detailed plans and lodge them with a solicitor. Then you need to develop a prototype - you will need this to attract funding.
Do not tell anyone what it is unless they sign a non-disclosure agreement - even then be very careful who you show it to.
You may need to apply for a trademark and/or a patent. Both are expensive and take a long time to achieve.
If you want any further advice email me.
PhillVR6 said:
Chaps and Chapesses,
IHave an idea for a product. I have done some initial research on the net and have not found anything similar produced.
What should be my next steps in terms of determining its validity and protecting the idea?
Thanks,
Phill.
As others have said don't show it to anyone without an non disclosure agreement (NDA) in place to protect your idea. For some companies you may have to give an idea of the market area your invention is in as they may not want to know about things that they could conceivably invent themselves.
A good strategy for finding out how to take it further is to talk to a product design consultancy (one of the more blue chip ones not the advertised on TV your inventions could make us sorry you millions rob dogs) they will meet you foc for an initial meeting that will give you an idea of product costs etc.
PM me if you want to go into more specifics
Cheers
Ben
I recently did a deal for someone who had innvented a particular bathlift for the elderly. He, too, had limited resources. In essence, this was the deal:
We located an appropriate national manufacturer /distributor with a verbal proposal.
We asked them to sign a NDA.
We did some detailed business models, showing potential profitability.
As part of the deal the partner organised the patents.
We then sold them "the exclusive rights to manufacture and market the product".
The partner committed to certain sales activities, which would deliver sales.
The inventor earned 5% royalties on all products.
The inventor has committed to designing the next version, of which the partner will have the rights to make/sell.
The advantages of the above are:
We never sold the IPR, but just the rights.
We got a small lump of cash on completion.
We didn't have to faff about with patents - the partner did it.
It gives an ongoing revenue stream.
Equally, the partner gets 95% of the revenue.
We located an appropriate national manufacturer /distributor with a verbal proposal.
We asked them to sign a NDA.
We did some detailed business models, showing potential profitability.
As part of the deal the partner organised the patents.
We then sold them "the exclusive rights to manufacture and market the product".
The partner committed to certain sales activities, which would deliver sales.
The inventor earned 5% royalties on all products.
The inventor has committed to designing the next version, of which the partner will have the rights to make/sell.
The advantages of the above are:
We never sold the IPR, but just the rights.
We got a small lump of cash on completion.
We didn't have to faff about with patents - the partner did it.
It gives an ongoing revenue stream.
Equally, the partner gets 95% of the revenue.
I've copied my post from another thread on patents.
Unless you have a big organisation backing you don't bother with patents.
Every small inventor thinks that the patent will protect him and ensure that the World beats a path to his door. In reality any organisation big enough to properly tool up to make and finance marketing a new product will also be able to employ lawyers and designers to argue for ever about every last tiny trivial detail of your idea while they take a total rip off to market leaving you with nothing.
In the real world, as opposed to the world of the pennyless inventor who dies just as deluded as when he first filed his patent you have the following options.
Registered design
This is roughly analogous to car styling or the shape of a coke bottle, it's cheap, easy and more defendable in some cases.
Public domain
Bung it on a website stating that anyone can use it! This pulls the rug out from under anyone who tries to annex your design or tries to patent something very very similar. You can use it. They can use it. So can all of their competitors.
Really on copyright.
This is very similar to registered design but uses the laws of copyright. Make a few and claim that the look and feel of certain parts are a copyrighted feature. You will need to show that these features are associated with your product. Easier than defending a patent though.
Do nothing to protect your invention
Just make it yourself if it is possible to do so. Someone might copy you. By the time their copy is on the market you will know the market, the customers, the suppliers of all the bits, employ the experts and have a brand name in buyers computer databases. When their copy hits the market you introduce the improved Mk2 version...
Keep the important bits secret
This is similar to the secret recipe for coke. You can't make coke without the recipe. If they patented it then they would have to reveal the recipe in the patent! So it's not patented and they keep it secret. If there is something that depends on know how in your invention just keep that bit to yourself.
The truth is that most inventors never make any money at all out of a patent. They are very hard to defend. Most serious companies only bother to file patents to screw up rivals R&D projects or give their engineers or lawyers a headache. (I have actually been involved in this!) Hardly any are genuine useful ideas, except those from pennyless deluded inventors that is!
Having said that you might be one of the minority that gets a patent and reaps the reward. Sometimes it works. Just bare in mind the above and go in with your eyes open!
edited to add-
Srebbe actually made some money out this game. Note his comment about not faffing about with patents and letting the partner do all the work. Also note that the inventor didn't deal with patents either! They sold the rights to make. Also note that the inventor got 5%. You may think he got a raw deal but I think he pretty well to make anything out of an invention especially one that he just handed over to someone else.
>> Edited by cymtriks on Tuesday 20th December 21:49
Unless you have a big organisation backing you don't bother with patents.
Every small inventor thinks that the patent will protect him and ensure that the World beats a path to his door. In reality any organisation big enough to properly tool up to make and finance marketing a new product will also be able to employ lawyers and designers to argue for ever about every last tiny trivial detail of your idea while they take a total rip off to market leaving you with nothing.
In the real world, as opposed to the world of the pennyless inventor who dies just as deluded as when he first filed his patent you have the following options.
Registered design
This is roughly analogous to car styling or the shape of a coke bottle, it's cheap, easy and more defendable in some cases.
Public domain
Bung it on a website stating that anyone can use it! This pulls the rug out from under anyone who tries to annex your design or tries to patent something very very similar. You can use it. They can use it. So can all of their competitors.
Really on copyright.
This is very similar to registered design but uses the laws of copyright. Make a few and claim that the look and feel of certain parts are a copyrighted feature. You will need to show that these features are associated with your product. Easier than defending a patent though.
Do nothing to protect your invention
Just make it yourself if it is possible to do so. Someone might copy you. By the time their copy is on the market you will know the market, the customers, the suppliers of all the bits, employ the experts and have a brand name in buyers computer databases. When their copy hits the market you introduce the improved Mk2 version...
Keep the important bits secret
This is similar to the secret recipe for coke. You can't make coke without the recipe. If they patented it then they would have to reveal the recipe in the patent! So it's not patented and they keep it secret. If there is something that depends on know how in your invention just keep that bit to yourself.
The truth is that most inventors never make any money at all out of a patent. They are very hard to defend. Most serious companies only bother to file patents to screw up rivals R&D projects or give their engineers or lawyers a headache. (I have actually been involved in this!) Hardly any are genuine useful ideas, except those from pennyless deluded inventors that is!
Having said that you might be one of the minority that gets a patent and reaps the reward. Sometimes it works. Just bare in mind the above and go in with your eyes open!
edited to add-
Srebbe actually made some money out this game. Note his comment about not faffing about with patents and letting the partner do all the work. Also note that the inventor didn't deal with patents either! They sold the rights to make. Also note that the inventor got 5%. You may think he got a raw deal but I think he pretty well to make anything out of an invention especially one that he just handed over to someone else.
>> Edited by cymtriks on Tuesday 20th December 21:49
srebbe64 said:
I recently did a deal for someone who had innvented a particular bathlift for the elderly. He, too, had limited resources. In essence, this was the deal:
We located an appropriate national manufacturer /distributor with a verbal proposal.
We asked them to sign a NDA.
We did some detailed business models, showing potential profitability.
As part of the deal the partner organised the patents.
We then sold them "the exclusive rights to manufacture and market the product".
The partner committed to certain sales activities, which would deliver sales.
The inventor earned 5% royalties on all products.
The inventor has committed to designing the next version, of which the partner will have the rights to make/sell.
The advantages of the above are:
We never sold the IPR, but just the rights.
We got a small lump of cash on completion.
We didn't have to faff about with patents - the partner did it.
It gives an ongoing revenue stream.
Equally, the partner gets 95% of the revenue.
What situation does that leave the inventor in if the partner decides not to exploit the product ? Do the rights have an expiry period or any conditions attached ?
Ben
Some good advice above from Cymtriks and Srebbe.
I have been through the process personally and I can say for sure that it isn't easy. However, if you truly belive in your idea/produce then you have to be prepared to go the distance.
The real truth is that good ideas are two a penny, but it is sheer dogged perseverance that makes some successful while others fall by the wayside.
Without knowing what your idea is it is difficult to comment further, but if it is simple then it will be difficult to truly protect, other than by being to market first. The harsh reality is that you can only really own the IPR to a specific product - not simply an idea. This is how every vacuum cleaner manufacturer now produces rip-off of Dyson designs. They just make a few variations and hey presto - in the eyes of the law it is a new product.
If you can make a prototype to demonstrate/test then that would be a distinct advantage. It is much easier to sell a tangible demonstrable product than an idea. You should also do some extensive market research.
Be hard on yourself - is it really something people will buy?
There are essentially two ways to make money - sell an item cheaply that everyone will want, or sell an expensive item to a niche market. Selling a cheap item that few people will want is not generally a sound proposition.
You could start off by speaking in general terms to your local Business Link organisation.
I have been through the process personally and I can say for sure that it isn't easy. However, if you truly belive in your idea/produce then you have to be prepared to go the distance.
The real truth is that good ideas are two a penny, but it is sheer dogged perseverance that makes some successful while others fall by the wayside.
Without knowing what your idea is it is difficult to comment further, but if it is simple then it will be difficult to truly protect, other than by being to market first. The harsh reality is that you can only really own the IPR to a specific product - not simply an idea. This is how every vacuum cleaner manufacturer now produces rip-off of Dyson designs. They just make a few variations and hey presto - in the eyes of the law it is a new product.
If you can make a prototype to demonstrate/test then that would be a distinct advantage. It is much easier to sell a tangible demonstrable product than an idea. You should also do some extensive market research.
Be hard on yourself - is it really something people will buy?
There are essentially two ways to make money - sell an item cheaply that everyone will want, or sell an expensive item to a niche market. Selling a cheap item that few people will want is not generally a sound proposition.
You could start off by speaking in general terms to your local Business Link organisation.
benyeats said:
I recently did a deal for someone who had innvented a particular bathlift for the elderly. He, too, had limited resources. In essence, this was the deal:
We located an appropriate national manufacturer /distributor with a verbal proposal.
We asked them to sign a NDA.
We did some detailed business models, showing potential profitability.
As part of the deal the partner organised the patents.
We then sold them "the exclusive rights to manufacture and market the product".
The partner committed to certain sales activities, which would deliver sales.
The inventor earned 5% royalties on all products.
The inventor has committed to designing the next version, of which the partner will have the rights to make/sell.
The advantages of the above are:
We never sold the IPR, but just the rights.
We got a small lump of cash on completion.
We didn't have to faff about with patents - the partner did it.
It gives an ongoing revenue stream.
Equally, the partner gets 95% of the revenue.
What situation does that leave the inventor in if the partner decides not to exploit the product ? Do the rights have an expiry period or any conditions attached ?
Ben
We put in plenty of caveats, including minimum sales figures, cap and collar, and evidence of marketing spend.
All in all, a good result for both parties: The inventor gets commitment to marketing and the partner has no R&D costs.
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