Blair's to give up some of its rebate in exchange for...
Blair's to give up some of its rebate in exchange for...
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Discussion

srebbe64

Original Poster:

13,021 posts

267 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
...not a lot.

I'm taking bets if anyone wants to bet against me! I'm guessing it will be Britain gives up part of rebate in exchange for the French to have a chat about the CAP and then they'll say "no, we'll keep it the same".

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

285 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
I'll bet you a fiver you're right....

simpo two

92,945 posts

295 months

Friday 16th December 2005
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I'd say 'in return for a big fat job in the EU one day', like Kinnock, Mandelson and all the other useless detritus that would be best off ploughed in for fertiliser.

puggit

49,821 posts

278 months

Friday 16th December 2005
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Spineless turd

victormeldrew

8,293 posts

307 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
We're giving up the rebate, the French will laugh themselves silly and continue to subsidise their farmers at our expense.

He's feathering his nest, bear in mind he'll be out of a job withing a couple of years. He'll not be able to live on Cruellas earnings as the wife of an ex PM, so a cushy number in Brussels will do nicely, merci Monsieur.

Two faced git.

>> Edited by victormeldrew on Friday 16th December 19:45

scared but happy

24,147 posts

259 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
What a tt - Must be the third way.
HolyGrailon
I fart in your general direction. Now go away before I taunt you a second time
/HolyGrailoff


>> Edited by scared but happy on Friday 16th December 18:58

lord summerisle

8,174 posts

255 months

Friday 16th December 2005
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can anyone tell me...

did shares in


go up with that announcement?

pesty

42,655 posts

286 months

Friday 16th December 2005
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surely not did'nt he say a few months ago that the rebate was out of bounds?

Are there any politicians in this country with a back bone?

alfaman

6,416 posts

264 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
you are right ..... we will give away a few £ billion ..... purely for the privelege of putting the CAP on the budget agenda within the next 3 years ...... so ING what if its "on the agenda" ... it still doesn't guarantee that it will ever get reduced .

makes my blood boil

srebbe64

Original Poster:

13,021 posts

267 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
It's rather like me having a salary review with one of my staff and saying to them, "I've decided to give you a 30% pay cut, however in exchange for this I'm prepared to have working hours discussed at your next pay review". If I said such a thing I'd be expecting the next few words to be expletives - not from me!

Jaglover

46,814 posts

265 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
The British rebate is going to grow, partly due to enlargement, so there is a case for agreeing to hand back that element of the rebate that deals with the cost of enlargement. Any reduction beyond that must be linked to actual reform of the CAP rather than weasel words that a 'review' of the CAP will happen in a few years.

srebbe64

Original Poster:

13,021 posts

267 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
Jaglover said:
The British rebate is going to grow, partly due to enlargement, so there is a case for agreeing to hand back that element of the rebate that deals with the cost of enlargement. Any reduction beyond that must be linked to actual reform of the CAP rather than weasel words that a 'review' of the CAP will happen in a few years.


But the whole point is, whenever you negotiate it's "tit for tat". If you give something away, you do it in return for something. That's negotiation. You NEVER give something tangible in exchange for something intangible. It seems we've got schoolboys in charge of UK Plc.

Jaglover

46,814 posts

265 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
srebbe64 said:


But the whole point is, whenever you negotiate it's "tit for tat". If you give something away, you do it in return for something. That's negotiation. You NEVER give something tangible in exchange for something intangible. It seems we've got schoolboys in charge of UK Plc.


True, but what we might gain by a limited concession on the rebate would be a budget deal shaped by us as the current holders of the EU presidency.

srebbe64

Original Poster:

13,021 posts

267 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
Jaglover said:
but what we might gain


There's the problem: we "definitely" pay and we "might" gain. Kindergarten politicians at the helm!

Egbert Nobacon

2,835 posts

273 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
Jaglover said:
srebbe64 said:


But the whole point is, whenever you negotiate it's "tit for tat". If you give something away, you do it in return for something. That's negotiation. You NEVER give something tangible in exchange for something intangible. It seems we've got schoolboys in charge of UK Plc.


True, but what we might gain by a limited concession on the rebate would be a budget deal shaped by us as the current holders of the EU presidency.


If you were talking about any other institution these ideas would be fine, but you are talking about the EU.

The accounts have not been ratified for 11 years due to the inability of the EU to track its spending.

They don't have any checks and balances akin to double entry book keeping, and all attempts to introduce any system like this have stalled.

The only thing they seem competant at is persecuting any whistleblower who uncovers fraud from within.

I fail to see why we should give any more money to this corrupt undemocratic entity until it cleans up its act and that goes far beyond just renegotiating the CAP.

>> Edited by Egbert Nobacon on Friday 16th December 22:02

8Pack

5,182 posts

270 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
victormeldrew said:
We're giving up the rebate, the French will laugh themselves silly and continue to subsidise their farmers at our expense.

He's feathering his nest, bear in mind he'll be out of a job withing a couple of years. He'll not be able to live on Cruellas earnings as the wife of an ex PM, so a cushy number in Brussels will do nicely, merci Monsieur.


Nope, betcha a fiver that he joins the "Carlyle Group". A few days work for a shed load of money!

>> Edited by 8Pack on Friday 16th December 22:05

srebbe64

Original Poster:

13,021 posts

267 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
Egbert Nobacon said:
Jaglover said:
srebbe64 said:


But the whole point is, whenever you negotiate it's "tit for tat". If you give something away, you do it in return for something. That's negotiation. You NEVER give something tangible in exchange for something intangible. It seems we've got schoolboys in charge of UK Plc.


True, but what we might gain by a limited concession on the rebate would be a budget deal shaped by us as the current holders of the EU presidency.


If you were talking about any other institution these ideas would be fine, but you are talking about the EU.

The accounts have not been ratified for 11 years due to the inability of the EU to track its spending.

They don't have any checks and balances akin to double entry book keeping, and all attempts to introduce any system like this have stalled.

The only thing they seem competant at is persecuting any whistleblower who uncovers fraud from within.

I fail to see why we should give any more money to this corrupt undemocratic entity until it cleans up its act and that goes far beyond just renegotiating the CAP.

>> Edited by Egbert Nobacon on Friday 16th December 22:02




I did consultancy work for the European Commission for five (long, arduous) years - and I can assure you it's filled with breathtaking wastage. As you rightly say, their auditors continually refuse to sign off their accounts. If I ran my business like that I'd be (rightly) prosecuted and banned from being a Director. However, they are immune from such prosecution. Needless-to-say, they expect all companies within the EU to operate with full accountability. I'm a believer in the free movement of trade and people - a level playing field is good. However, I honestly believe you could close down 70% of all EU departments and it would make absolutely no difference to the citizens of Europe. The people in most of the departments I dealt with spent most of their weekly hours finding ways of justifying why they need a larger budget. I gave the (quite lucrative) consultancy the elbow in the end because I got so angry!

simpo two

92,945 posts

295 months

Friday 16th December 2005
quotequote all
I saw on the news that the Czech Finance Minister is already looking at his spreadsheets and working out how to spend the extra billion we're putting in the pot...

So that ANOTHER billion Gordy's got to find. WTF is going on???

nel

4,830 posts

271 months

Saturday 17th December 2005
quotequote all
Unbelievable! This pearl of a paragraph is from the Beeb's latest article, I quote:

"...agreement is thought to be close on a new budget review clause that allows for the possibility of an agricultural policy (CAP) review before 2013, but allows France to say that the CAP might not be changed."

Well just what the does that mean? We MIGHT review before 2013, but the French can refuse anything proposed by the review anyway? If Blair goes for this then he is SUCH a tt!

REFERENDUM ON UK MEMBERSHIP OF THE FEDERAL STATE OF EUROPE - NOW!

8Pack

5,182 posts

270 months

Saturday 17th December 2005
quotequote all
It probably means that the deal has been done behind closed doors but they don't want to tell the French people yet.........

Such are the devious workings of the political classes