Is it right to spend 24 yrs on death row?
Discussion
And then be executed?
Ive just read that former Gang leader Stanley Tookie Williams was executed by lethal injection this morning for the murder of a shop assistant and 3 family members in 1979.
In his time in prison on death row it was even suggested that he should recieve a Nobel prize in Peace and literature ,he also wrote a series of childrens books warning of the dangers of gangs.
I cant help feeling that its inhumane that the Americans let someone spend countless years on "Death Row",in 25 years a person can change ,and look back in regret at the imaturaty of their crimes,maybe even look back with total detachment at their crimes.
If they have to be executed them then why not get it over and done with soon after the trial.
Ive just read that former Gang leader Stanley Tookie Williams was executed by lethal injection this morning for the murder of a shop assistant and 3 family members in 1979.
In his time in prison on death row it was even suggested that he should recieve a Nobel prize in Peace and literature ,he also wrote a series of childrens books warning of the dangers of gangs.
I cant help feeling that its inhumane that the Americans let someone spend countless years on "Death Row",in 25 years a person can change ,and look back in regret at the imaturaty of their crimes,maybe even look back with total detachment at their crimes.
If they have to be executed them then why not get it over and done with soon after the trial.
Bomber Denton said:
Hey if you were going to get killed wouldn't you repent all? 
Don't forget he was the mastermind behind the Crips gang that have killed thousands since.
But isnt it wrong to give people hope when all along they are going to meet their maker,ime not sticking up for him ,i just dont see or warrant how they can keep a murderer on DR for more than a few weeks let alone 24 years?
Trooper2 said:
Most of the 25 years was spent by his lawyers in appeals courts trying to get him out from under the death penalty I'm sure. Our court system is set up as such that for any death penalty conviction there is an automatic set of appeals set in motion.
But 25 years??,is the legal system really that slow in the U.S.
ZR1cliff said:
Most of the 25 years was spent by his lawyers in appeals courts trying to get him out from under the death penalty I'm sure. Our court system is set up as such that for any death penalty conviction there is an automatic set of appeals set in motion.
But 25 years??,is the legal system really that slow in the U.S.
When it comes to the death penalty and appeals it certainly can take that long, it just depends on how many attempts are made by the defence to get lower courts rulings over turned, Etc.
I'm not an expert by any means but I think the average time from conviction to sentence being carried out in a death penalty case would be some where around 10 to 12 years.
Always preferred the old Soviet system, where they would inform you that the appeal had been successful, and that your lawyer/family was waiting down the corridor, then pop you as you left the cell.
Granted, there were probably a few miscarriages of justice there, too, but the look on their face in the afterlife would have been priceless.....
Granted, there were probably a few miscarriages of justice there, too, but the look on their face in the afterlife would have been priceless.....
randlemarcus said:
Always preferred the old Soviet system, where they would inform you that the appeal had been successful, and that your lawyer/family was waiting down the corridor, then pop you as you left the cell.
Granted, there were probably a few miscarriages of justice there, too, but the look on their face in the afterlife would have been priceless.....
You sir are a very sick and cruel man. Then again so am I so that made me chuckle
Seriously though, I would regard a 24 year wait to carry out an excecution as grossly excessive and even a cruel and unusual punishment.
There do have to be checks and controls in a death sentence (you cant exactly release em afterwards) but I would expect these to be reasonably speeded up no waiting for 12 months for a date in court etc) and I would expect that there would be very few cases where appeals couldnt be completed within say, 5 years MAX.
Waiting a quarter of a century in prison, only to be terminated at the end of it is just insane, in fact it would drive me insane, at least normal prisoners have the prospect of freedom at the end of it. This guy wasnt sentenced to 24 years of prison, he was sentenced to death.
TheLemming said:
Seriously though, I would regard a 24 year wait to carry out an excecution as grossly excessive and even a cruel and unusual punishment.
There do have to be checks and controls in a death sentence (you cant exactly release em afterwards) but I would expect these to be reasonably speeded up no waiting for 12 months for a date in court etc) and I would expect that there would be very few cases where appeals couldnt be completed within say, 5 years MAX.
Waiting a quarter of a century in prison, only to be terminated at the end of it is just insane, in fact it would drive me insane, at least normal prisoners have the prospect of freedom at the end of it. This guy wasnt sentenced to 24 years of prison, he was sentenced to death.
As I understand it, the US system, at least in this respect, is effectively set up so that you default to clemency, and the prosecution has to win again and again against numerous writs of babeas corpus, introduction of new evidence, casting nasturtiums at witnesses etc. The number and depth of appeals seems to depend on the number and depth of public feeling about you and/or your crimes.
When you think about it, its a little better than the one we used to have, whereby codger A would bung a black hanky on his wig, and Codger B would have a look out of the window at the common folks to see if they were upset, then we'd hang the bu99ers anyway.
Sorry about before, thats the civilised veneer slipping away, you see.
edited for a missing bracket. And I'm certain Hinge was around a a little while ago too.
>> Edited by randlemarcus on Tuesday 13th December 18:43
Trooper2 said:
When it comes to the death penalty and appeals it certainly can take that long, it just depends on how many attempts are made by the defence to get lower courts rulings over turned, Etc.
I'm not an expert by any means but I think the average time from conviction to sentence being carried out in a death penalty case would be some where around 10 to 12 years.
Its crazy?,from what ive read it would be a matter of days in the UK for an appeal to take place, back when we had capital punishment,then the execution was carried out.
Seems like the legal proccess in the U.S. is too involved?
ZR1cliff said:
When it comes to the death penalty and appeals it certainly can take that long, it just depends on how many attempts are made by the defence to get lower courts rulings over turned, Etc.
I'm not an expert by any means but I think the average time from conviction to sentence being carried out in a death penalty case would be some where around 10 to 12 years.
Its crazy?,from what ive read it would be a matter of days in the UK for an appeal to take place, back when we had capital punishment,then the execution was carried out.
Seems like the legal proccess in the U.S. is too involved?
I dont think it's too involved, after all, you cant UNexecute someone can you?
On the other hand how much of that average 10 year delay is down to waiting for court dates etc.
If those were prioritised the time taken for the appeals process could happily be cut dramatically.
Keep in mind that the alternative to the death sentence is life in prison (usually without the possibility of parole) so death row inmates would be incarcerated that long anyway, sometimes I think the death penalty is doing them a favor. There isn't really an argument for one method being more cost effective than the other as both have become ridiculously expensive.
Trooper2 said:
Keep in mind that the alternative to the death sentence is life in prison (usually without the possibility of parole) so death row inmates would be incarcerated that long anyway, sometimes I think the death penalty is doing them a favor. There isn't really an argument for one method being more cost effective than the other as both have become ridiculously expensive.
$31,000 per year to keep a single prisoner in San Quentin.
$25,000 estimate to kill someone legally, dont know where all that money goes but thats what the California state penal website reckons.
Plotloss said:
Keep in mind that the alternative to the death sentence is life in prison (usually without the possibility of parole) so death row inmates would be incarcerated that long anyway, sometimes I think the death penalty is doing them a favor. There isn't really an argument for one method being more cost effective than the other as both have become ridiculously expensive.
$31,000 per year to keep a single prisoner in San Quentin.
$25,000 estimate to kill someone legally, don't know where all that money goes but thats what the California state penal website reckons.
I have to assume that the $25,000 quoted is just for the actual carrying out of the sentence and doesn't include the housing of the prisoner or court costs, annually, until the sentence is carried out. Which would drive the price up considerably.
Trooper2 said:
Keep in mind that the alternative to the death sentence is life in prison (usually without the possibility of parole) so death row inmates would be incarcerated that long anyway, sometimes I think the death penalty is doing them a favor. There isn't really an argument for one method being more cost effective than the other as both have become ridiculously expensive.
$31,000 per year to keep a single prisoner in San Quentin.
$25,000 estimate to kill someone legally, don't know where all that money goes but thats what the California state penal website reckons.
I have to assume that the $25,000 quoted is just for the actual carrying out of the sentence and doesn't include the housing of the prisoner or court costs, annually, until the sentence is carried out. Which would drive the price up considerably.
To be fair, I think the $25K is just the cost of the ghoulish roadshow that goes along with the execution.
Its not like Doctors are used to working for nothing...
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