ANPR /Specs Tracked Cop Killers?
ANPR /Specs Tracked Cop Killers?
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Discussion

zcacogp

Original Poster:

11,239 posts

274 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
Chaps,

This may be in discussion somewhere else on this forum - apologies if it is, but I couldn't find it.

Reading the BBC website, it looks like the killers of the policewoman in Bradford last week were tracked in their getaway by car registration plate tracking cameras - ANPR-type things. (A few) more details here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/4455918.

Interesting, as PH seems united on the fact that the killers of this copper deserves everying that is coming to them (which I happen to agree with), but is divided over the merits of the system used to do this tracking. I guess the answer is that the end doesn't justify the means, but it is good to see this technology being used well, for a highly desirable end.


Oli.

esselte

14,626 posts

297 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
zcacogp said:
Chaps,

This may be in discussion somewhere else on this forum - apologies if it is, but I couldn't find it.

Reading the BBC website, it looks like the killers of the policewoman in Bradford last week were tracked in their getaway by car registration plate tracking cameras - ANPR-type things. (A few) more details here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/4455918.

Interesting, as PH seems united on the fact that the killers of this copper deserves everying that is coming to them (which I happen to agree with), but is divided over the merits of the system used to do this tracking. I guess the answer is that the end doesn't justify the means, but it is good to see this technology being used well, for a highly desirable end.


Oli.


Let's hope they've not used the dvla database to get addresses otherwise there's a good chance that half a dozen people will haved had a trip up the M1 for nothing.

wedg1e

27,040 posts

295 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
Well they would glorify it wouldn't they; but what's to bet the scum drove ten miles in the 'wrong' direction, dumped the car and switched to another? AND they were almost certainly all stolen anyway.

cazzer

8,883 posts

278 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
I think maybe because she's still dead.
Useful for crime detection, but not for prevention.
Well except for speeding I suppose.

Having said that, they could achieve what they acheived with ANPR on each motorway exit and not every 400 yards down the motorway as has been proposed.

I hope they don't use this poor womans death as a political tool, but you know they will.

esselte

14,626 posts

297 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
wedg1e said:
Well they would glorify it wouldn't they; but what's to bet the scum drove ten miles in the 'wrong' direction, dumped the car and switched to another? AND they were almost certainly all stolen anyway.


What, you mean your regular armed robber doesn't register and insure his own vehicle...now there's a surprise!

wedg1e

27,040 posts

295 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
esselte said:
wedg1e said:
Well they would glorify it wouldn't they; but what's to bet the scum drove ten miles in the 'wrong' direction, dumped the car and switched to another? AND they were almost certainly all stolen anyway.


What, you mean your regular armed robber doesn't register and insure his own vehicle...now there's a surprise!


OK, I'll rephrase that: what a f**king waste of time. Better?

esselte

14,626 posts

297 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
wedg1e said:
esselte said:
wedg1e said:
Well they would glorify it wouldn't they; but what's to bet the scum drove ten miles in the 'wrong' direction, dumped the car and switched to another? AND they were almost certainly all stolen anyway.


What, you mean your regular armed robber doesn't register and insure his own vehicle...now there's a surprise!


OK, I'll rephrase that: what a f**king waste of time. Better?


I think we agree

alfaman

6,416 posts

264 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
wedg1e said:
Well they would glorify it wouldn't they; but what's to bet the scum drove ten miles in the 'wrong' direction, dumped the car and switched to another? AND they were almost certainly all stolen anyway.


Don't think it matters whether the car is stolen .... from the BBC website it stated that the number of the Bradford getaway vehicle was noted - then entered into the ANPR system such that every time the vehicle in question passed an ANPR camera its postiion was flagged up or "pinged" - this is I think how they tracked it out of Bradford and ( I guess ) South to London. Seems like auseful system to me.

jas xjr

11,309 posts

269 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
i was a little surprised at the sight of the convoy heading up the motorway, on the news last night, at least 10 vehicles. rather excessive i thought

superlightr

12,920 posts

293 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
you can hear the Blair spin machine already. Making a big show of armed police around the incident area, get on all the tv news.

Massive convoy up/down the motorway - again tipping off the reporters of its time and location.

xxplod

2,269 posts

274 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
Tipping off reporters? Hardly necessary. One snapper sat on the brifge of one of the motorway services is all that's required.

MilnerR

8,273 posts

288 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]


I suspect the government would rather keep it that way. The last thing they want is a happy, safe, prosperous population. It would highlight how superfluous politicians are. A dodgy NHS, high tax and a police service on the brink of collapse gives them something to promise for the next election....

Back O/T: It looks as though the police have tipped their hand a little in this situation. The ability to electronically pursue a particular car is a trick worth keeping to yourself. Lets face it, it wouldn't be that difficult to foil would it?

DanH

12,287 posts

290 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all

I don't care about ANPR, I care about them using it to keep a log of everyones movements for several years along with massively too many cameras for that job, also used for enforcing speed limits.

If it was just to trigger an alert when known looked for cars went by that would be fine. Keeping a log of where every citizen goes isn't.

Parrot of doom

23,075 posts

264 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
All I know is that they've arrested some suspects - not killers (until proven guilty).

wedg1e

27,040 posts

295 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
MilnerR said:

Back O/T: It looks as though the police have tipped their hand a little in this situation. The ability to electronically pursue a particular car is a trick worth keeping to yourself. Lets face it, it wouldn't be that difficult to foil would it?


Well precisely. Next time there'll be three or four small-time crims brought in to drive decoy cars, all with the same number plates...

chrisgr31

14,286 posts

285 months

Monday 21st November 2005
quotequote all
DanH said:

I don't care about ANPR, I care about them using it to keep a log of everyones movements for several years along with massively too many cameras for that job, also used for enforcing speed limits.

If it was just to trigger an alert when known looked for cars went by that would be fine. Keeping a log of where every citizen goes isn't.


Indeed that would be my worry too. Not only could it track you but of course will also now the speed you are doing.

MilnerR

8,273 posts

288 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
wedg1e said:

Well precisely. Next time there'll be three or four small-time crims brought in to drive decoy cars, all with the same number plates...



Its amazing how a wet bit of newspaper can adhere to a numberplate in the right conditions....

Flat in Fifth

48,854 posts

281 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
jas xjr said:
i was a little surprised at the sight of the convoy heading up the motorway, on the news last night, at least 10 vehicles. rather excessive i thought

Keeping the suspects separate is rather fundamental don't you think?

Putting them in different nicks for questioning is also rather fundamental don't you think?

Mind you there will be bleeding heart liberal along in a minute saying it is an abuse of human rights to tell suspect A that suspect B is singing like a canary and so on. Thus they all drop each other in the brown and smelly.

Personally don't see owt wrong with that OR the convoy.

zcacogp

Original Poster:

11,239 posts

274 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
Flat in Fifth said:
Keeping the suspects separate is rather fundamental don't you think?
Yes ... wasn't it 5 people taken in the convoy, but 7 vans? (Plus numerous outriders/cars.)

Must have been extra space for the donughts.


Oli.

Mr Whippy

32,453 posts

271 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
Thats what I had to explain to a work mate.

The ANPR can only look at numberplates. It doesn't stop people getting shot, it doesn't do anything except watch mercilessly, numberplates.

The only reason they were useful here is that the numberplate of the car at the crime scene was tracked. Ignore names, databases, addresses etc, the numberplate went from a to b, and the system knew that, and that was all it knew.

Now, any person who shoots police will remove the plate, or change the plate, or simply edit a few select letters with a marker pen. Throw a bit of wet newspaper on it even?

Chances are the car was stolen, but that didn't matter, the owner is not in question, it's where that specifc plate was tracked to using ANPR...


So, great system, this once. Now people are aware they can be followed using it, they'll defeat it very simply, as the system is ultimately flawed as it specialises in one thing!


Now, if they used more TrafPol and Plod on the beat, who can multitask, they can solve all manner of crimes, or even prevent them in the first place.... ahhhhh! Better than relying on some ANPR camera's to solve a crime after it's already bloody happened!

Dave