BT/Telephone Engineers....
Discussion
Having some trouble with my phone 'network' at home. 
Before today, I had a master socket on the end of the BT line from outside. Hardwired into the back of this was one piece of CAT 5E about 5 meters long which fed the phoneline into the living room. Plugged into the front of this is a extension which carries a telephone and the ADSL line via a filter (obviously). Into the back of the socket is the feed for the Sky digibox.
Also into the back of the master socket was a piece of telephone cable (standard BT issue I believe) which ran a feed up to my bedroom. This was split half way up by a junction box, the junction box has 8 prongs down each side (cables push in between them). On the end of the cable was a box with a filter and a DSL modem and telephone. It has worked like that for over 3 years.
Only on tuesday we are having Sky multiroom installed. A Sky+ box will replace the digibox downstairs and there will be a Sky+ box going upstairs (
). No wanting to take the easy way out I decided to fit a wall box on the other side of my room. This taking a feed from the box already in my room, only from the back, not the front. I thought that maybe CAT5 would make a better connection between the three boxes (Master - Original - New) so ran a new length from the master socket upstairs. Only now it didn't work, no dialing tone or DSL line upstairs 
. So I ran a new length, same again, no dial tone no DSL line . I changed the socket upstairs. Nada. Zilch.
Then I altered the way the master socket is setup instead of taking 2 feeds from the master, I took one, and ran it to a junction box, then took the 2 feeds from there. This produced the same result as before, living room one works, upstairs doesn't.
I'm at a loss now. Does anyone have any ideas?
TIA
Stuart.
Before today, I had a master socket on the end of the BT line from outside. Hardwired into the back of this was one piece of CAT 5E about 5 meters long which fed the phoneline into the living room. Plugged into the front of this is a extension which carries a telephone and the ADSL line via a filter (obviously). Into the back of the socket is the feed for the Sky digibox.
Also into the back of the master socket was a piece of telephone cable (standard BT issue I believe) which ran a feed up to my bedroom. This was split half way up by a junction box, the junction box has 8 prongs down each side (cables push in between them). On the end of the cable was a box with a filter and a DSL modem and telephone. It has worked like that for over 3 years.
Only on tuesday we are having Sky multiroom installed. A Sky+ box will replace the digibox downstairs and there will be a Sky+ box going upstairs (
). No wanting to take the easy way out I decided to fit a wall box on the other side of my room. This taking a feed from the box already in my room, only from the back, not the front. I thought that maybe CAT5 would make a better connection between the three boxes (Master - Original - New) so ran a new length from the master socket upstairs. Only now it didn't work, no dialing tone or DSL line upstairs . So I ran a new length, same again, no dial tone no DSL line . I changed the socket upstairs. Nada. Zilch. Then I altered the way the master socket is setup instead of taking 2 feeds from the master, I took one, and ran it to a junction box, then took the 2 feeds from there. This produced the same result as before, living room one works, upstairs doesn't.
I'm at a loss now. Does anyone have any ideas?
TIA
Stuart.
You've probably exhausted the power on the phone line. It can only take a certain number of devices. There's a name for it, and it's printed on the bottom of each connected device what value it is. I.e. your phone will be 2 and an answerphone will be 1 etc and i think you can have a total of 11 on a line.
I was BT engineer 25 years ago.
Connections 2 and 5 Blue/White, White/Blue should be the actual line.
The only other connection required in a domestic system is Pin 3 Orange/White which is the bell wire, and this was used prevent bell tingle when dialling from extensions.
As long as 2 and 5 are connected, you should get dial tone. Try reversing 2 and 5 on the phone that does not work.
Connections 2 and 5 Blue/White, White/Blue should be the actual line.
The only other connection required in a domestic system is Pin 3 Orange/White which is the bell wire, and this was used prevent bell tingle when dialling from extensions.
As long as 2 and 5 are connected, you should get dial tone. Try reversing 2 and 5 on the phone that does not work.
Ahh, I think I remember reading something about that before.
But theres only one problem with that theory.
I haven't actually added anything new yet. All I've got on the line that draw power from it is 2 phones. The DSL modem takes its power from the computer and the Sky box isn't plugged in, but I think thats self powered as well!
But theres only one problem with that theory.
I haven't actually added anything new yet. All I've got on the line that draw power from it is 2 phones. The DSL modem takes its power from the computer and the Sky box isn't plugged in, but I think thats self powered as well!
agent006 said:
You've probably exhausted the power on the phone line. It can only take a certain number of devices. There's a name for it, and it's printed on the bottom of each connected device what value it is. I.e. your phone will be 2 and an answerphone will be 1 etc and i think you can have a total of 11 on a line.
You can have a max REN value of 4 where most phones are around 1.
Oh you mesure it across pins 2 and 5, I should mention that phones upto 90VAC so you will get a jolt if someone rings eek!
2 blue, white stripes
3 bell
5 white, blue stripes
Now it will work if you mix 2 and 5 up but its not good practice.
I would start by disconnting everything and then connecting one thing at a time getting that working then the next ...etc
Good luck
>> Edited by polus on Saturday 19th November 23:44
agent006 said:
You've probably exhausted the power on the phone line. It can only take a certain number of devices. There's a name for it, and it's printed on the bottom of each connected device what value it is. I.e. your phone will be 2 and an answerphone will be 1 etc and i think you can have a total of 11 on a line.
You are referring to the REN number.
This should add up to no more than 5.
But that was only for bell resistance. if you go over REN 5 then your incoming calls will not ring the phone bell. You should still be able to get dial tone.
Also check your extension socket is a secondary type, and must not be fitted with a capacitor (white cylinder component in line jack). Only the master jack should have this.
>> Edited by ledfoot on Saturday 19th November 23:46
ledfoot said:
Also check your extension socket is a secondary type, and must not be fitted with a capacitor (white cylinder component in line jack). Only the master jack should have this.
I think the upstairs socket has a capacitor, but then its had a capacitor for 3 years and worked ok.
I was tempted to try it without the DSL Filters, but I'm not sure how this would work at the Exchange. AFAIK BT fiddle with your line at the exchange to give you DSL.
tvradict said:
I was tempted to try it without the DSL Filters, but I'm not sure how this would work at the Exchange. AFAIK BT fiddle with your line at the exchange to give you DSL.
The DSL filters remove the high frequency signal used by DSL. It simply prevents you from hearing a hissing type sound when you make/receive voice calls.
Removing the filter will not cause any damage.
tvradict said:
How the hell do u check voltages on a phone line?!?!
Put a meter on DC and look for 50V across the master pins 2 and 5 (should be blue/white and white/blue) this is the line voltage from the BT exchange...no 50v equals no dial tone.....
where to start...
1. Use the same colour code through out ..sounds daft but helps, blue/white =2 and white/blue = 5, replicate in all sockets..
2. check the wires are "punched down" properly using a proper tool rather than screw driver etc..
3. Try punching wires down in different order, ie where you have cabled from the back, move one set of wires under the others...different wires can be different sizes and can spread the pins and therefore the wires above do not make a good connection...especially if wrong insertion tool is used..
Suggest you go back to original cable if poss and see if the original socket works at least you know how far the feed is working...
ignore the talk about capacitors...orange/white and REN this is all to do with ringing and no good without dial tone....
Just work your way through from one socket to the next looking for the 50v. If you get this on the back of all sockets but no dial tone then either the socket has had it or the spring like pins inside the socket that the phone plugs into may be not far enough down to make a connection...these can be bent down gently to make ok again....
obi said:Cheers
How the hell do u check voltages on a phone line?!?!
Put a meter on DC and look for 50V across the master pins 2 and 5 (should be blue/white and white/blue) this is the line voltage from the BT exchange...no 50v equals no dial tone.....
where to start...
obi said:Done.
1. Use the same colour code through out ..sounds daft but helps, blue/white =2 and white/blue = 5, replicate in all sockets..
obi said:Got that, using it!
2. check the wires are "punched down" properly using a proper tool rather than screw driver etc..
obi said:Never thought of that. Cheers!
3. Try punching wires down in different order, ie where you have cabled from the back, move one set of wires under the others...different wires can be different sizes and can spread the pins and therefore the wires above do not make a good connection...especially if wrong insertion tool is used..
obi said:
Suggest you go back to original cable if poss and see if the original socket works at least you know how far the feed is working...
ignore the talk about capacitors...orange/white and REN this is all to do with ringing and no good without dial tone....
Just work your way through from one socket to the next looking for the 50v. If you get this on the back of all sockets but no dial tone then either the socket has had it or the spring like pins inside the socket that the phone plugs into may be not far enough down to make a connection...these can be bent down gently to make ok again....
I know the feed is at the master socket and one other socket. Living room.
Ok.
I've done my checks.
All the connections have been triple checked. Blue/White 2, White/Blue 5 throughout.
I'm reading 49.7 Volts at the Master Socket, 49.7 Volts on both sides of the Junction box and 49.7 Volts at the socket in the living room. Which I have noticed is a Master Socket the same as the Main BT one. Upstairs I'm showing a big fat 0 Volts.
I think the fault may lie in the Junction box. Looking at the prongs they seem to be opening up the further out they go so I'm going to get another one to replace it with. Might also replace the socket in the living room with a secondary.
I've done my checks.
All the connections have been triple checked. Blue/White 2, White/Blue 5 throughout.
I'm reading 49.7 Volts at the Master Socket, 49.7 Volts on both sides of the Junction box and 49.7 Volts at the socket in the living room. Which I have noticed is a Master Socket the same as the Main BT one. Upstairs I'm showing a big fat 0 Volts.
I think the fault may lie in the Junction box. Looking at the prongs they seem to be opening up the further out they go so I'm going to get another one to replace it with. Might also replace the socket in the living room with a secondary.
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