'Accept our law or leave' says government

[r988]

news.com.au said:

'Accept our law or leave' From: AAP November 10, 2005 TREASURER Peter Costello said radical Muslims would not be allowed to turn Australia into an Islamic state. Mr Costello said Muslims who wanted to live in a country governed by sharia law, which imposes strict limitations on freedoms, would be better off living elsewhere. "If you are somebody who wants to live in an Islamic state governed by sharia law you are not going to be happy in Australia, because Australia is not an Islamic state, will never be an Islamic state and will never be governed by sharia law," Mr Costello said. "We are a secular state under our constitution, our law is made by parliament elected in democratic elections. "We do not derive our laws from religious instruction." Mr Costello said anyone who was alienated by Australia's form of government, judicial system and civil rights and wanted something else "might be better advised to find the 'something else' somewhere else". "There are Islamic states around the world that practise sharia law and if that's your object you may well be much more at home in such a country than trying to turn Australia into one of those countries, because it's not going to happen," he said.

It would seem to be stating the obvious to me, but for once I agree with the Australian government. If you want to live in an Islamic state then go and live in one already, if you don't like the existing Islamic state's then maybe you should think about whether Islam is really the religion for you.

[Eric Mc]

Like the way WE non-Muslims accept all OUR laws.

Totally law abiding all of us aren't we?

And don't we 100% support every piece of legislation brought in by our governement?

Or is it Muslims who are the only people who aren't allowed to diagree with our rulers and the laws they create?

[kerfuffle]

Are you Mrs Fish in disguise, R988? You're quite the newshound

[planetdave]

r988 said:

If you want to live in an Islamic state then go and live in one already, if you don't like the existing Islamic state's then maybe you should think about whether Islam is really the religion for you.

Why?

Just because you are muslim does it follow that you cannot aspire to a 'perfect' country?

It kinda goes against freedom of choice - though I'm sure the gist was 'don't with Australia'

[fido]

while i agree with much of what is said in this speech,
i think 'their' past-treatment of Aboriginal people & other 'minorities' is hardly anything to get inspired about...

planetdave said:

Just because you are muslim does it follow that you cannot aspire to a 'perfect' country?

think the problem here is the 'separation of religion and state' which i'd say is a fundamental part of any democracy - here lies the problem with Islamic states, or indeed any government who form their policies and principals from religion.

exhibit A: the Evolution vs Intelligent Design debate in Kansas


>> Edited by fido on Thursday 10th November 11:25

[ADDYBOY1982]

planetdave said:

r988 said: If you want to live in an Islamic state then go and live in one already, if you don't like the existing Islamic state's then maybe you should think about whether Islam is really the religion for you. Why? Just because you are muslim does it follow that you cannot aspire to a 'perfect' country? It kinda goes against freedom of choice - though I'm sure the gist was 'don't with Australia'

Sounds about right - more of us should be saying don't fk with Britain.

[nonegreen]

If Bliar said "Obey our laws or leave" There would be a stampede. Of white people ....

[cotty]

r988 said:

news.com.au said: 'Accept our law or leave' It would seem to be stating the obvious to me,

Me to.

I think the French are taking this to the next level and will kick people (those not born in France)out who have broken the law in the recent riots.

[r988]

Sorry, I probably wasn't veryclear enough, when I used the term Islamic state I mean governed by sharia law which means everyone must be Islamic and follow Islamic laws, nothing against Muslims who merely wish to practice their religion, just those who want to turn it into a pure Islamic state, as has been the stated aim of some of these wacko's.

article said:

If you are somebody who wants to live in an Islamic state governed by sharia law you are not going to be happy in Australia,

>> Edited by r988 on Thursday 10th November 11:24

[TeamD]

Eric Mc said:

Like the way WE non-Muslims accept all OUR laws. Totally law abiding all of us aren't we? And don't we 100% support every piece of legislation brought in by our governement? Or is it Muslims who are the only people who aren't allowed to diagree with our rulers and the laws they create?

Don't you think there is something a little odd about using the freedoms provided by a system to remove them though? I think that the orginial post has considerable merit, it's a fair and reasonable expectation that whether we agree 100% with the laws of our country, we accept that they have been put in place by a democratically elected government and that the only way to overturn such laws is via democratically electing another one or swaying by virtue of argument the existing one, in order to effect change that is the will and in the best interests of the majority. I, for one, cannot see why everyone is so hung up about minorities that seem to want to subject the majority to their will. It's a recipe for disaster.

[fido]

TeamD said:

I, for one, cannot see why everyone is so hung up about minorities that seem to want to subject the majority to their will. It's a recipe for disaster.

interesting debate.
so what if say, 55% of people want to teach 'intelligent design' in schools, alongside evolution [based on scientific theories], and you [an aetheist or non-practising? Christian] object to this - would you be happy with this situation, and just accept it as majority-rule?

>> Edited by fido for the nth time

>> Edited by fido on Thursday 10th November 11:41

[cotty]

fido said:

so what if say, 55% of people want to teach 'intelligent design' in schools, alongside evolution [based on scientific theories], and you [an aetheist or non-practising? Christian] object to this - would you be happy with this situation, and just accept it as majority-rule?

Probably, no one gave me the option of not attending RE classes when I was at school. I think kids tend to pick up what is usefull and disregard what they feel is not usefull.

[Eric Mc]

Don't forget that Britain is one of the few countries in Europe that has an Established Religion and a head of stste who is also head of that Established Religion.

I for one agree that anyone who finds that they are living in a country where they feel that the government of that country and the general laws of that country are abhorent to them should seriously consider whether they should leave that said country. Of course, when those type of people want to COME to the UK, we seem to get fairly hot under the collar!

[TeamD]

fido said:

interesting debate. so what if say, 55% of people want to teach 'intelligent design' in schools, alongside evolution [based on scientific theories], and you [an aetheist or non-practising? Christian] object to this - would you be happy with this situation, and just accept it as majority-rule?

So what do you suggest? I'm perfectly within my rights to disagree and campaign for what I believe, but if the majority believe that it's right then I'll never get it voted out will I? That is, unless I set up my own little vociferous pressure group to slander and intimidate others and promise that my supporters will vote for a given polictical party in return for "favours" like we do in the UK?

Good on 'em for saying "This is the way this country works, it's enshrined in our constitution, if you don't like it the feck off!" Let's face it, how far do you reckon I'd get if I moved to Saudi and decided that I didn't like Islam and started preaching Christianity?

>> Edited by TeamD on Thursday 10th November 11:57

[Eric Mc]

The beauty of countries like Australia and the UK is that they are countries where, up to now anyway, opinions could be freely expressed. There is no point arguing and getting angry when people express opinions you don't agree with.

Obviosly, Saudi Arabia and other totaliotarian states are very different.

[dilbert]

Eric Mc said:

Don't forget that Britain is one of the few countries in Europe that has an Established Religion and a head of stste who is also head of that Established Religion. I for one agree that anyone who finds that they are living in a country where they feel that the government of that country and the general laws of that country are abhorent to them should seriously consider whether they should leave that said country. Of course, when those type of people want to COME to the UK, we seem to get fairly hot under the collar!

Sad fact is though, that many of the people who were born here, have considered your argument, and have decided to leave.

What worries me, is that they are the very same people that have a good education and create the majority of the wealth.

Sounds like Australia might be a good place to go and live.

Edited to add;

It seems to me that when the government say "our law" they mean just that. I say we should give them an Island in the Pacific with a population of Zero, then they can play whatever law games they like!

>> Edited by dilbert on Thursday 10th November 12:05

[allnighter]

I strongly believe in "when in Rome...."


If you go as a "guest" to a country , you are expected to obey its laws whether you like it or not.It is nobody's business to try and change the laws of a host country to suit his needs or beliefs.

However , the host country should respect the fundamental principle of religious freedom , that nobody should be persecuted whether he worships God or Satan.

I always believe that religion should always be seperated from politics.

I agree with the Australians that if you want an Islamic judicial system "sharia", Autralia is not the country for you , maybe you should try Iran instead.

Basically you can't have your cake and eat it.