Discussion
My fiancee has big problems with her ex-husband who continues to cause trouble, nothing that is easily proven in a court of law, but the sort of activity is:
1. Tailing in the car.
2. Hanging around where we live.
3. Hanging around the school of his son with my fiancee, when he has no reason to be there (they have a contact order so that basically they should not have to come into contact).
The problem can be that a lot of his activities come via the 6 year old son of my fiancee.
I've already been to the police a couple of months ago, to complain, but the problem can be that it is difficult to prove stuff to get an ASBO or other injunction.
Any PH members had experience in this area?
1. Tailing in the car.
2. Hanging around where we live.
3. Hanging around the school of his son with my fiancee, when he has no reason to be there (they have a contact order so that basically they should not have to come into contact).
The problem can be that a lot of his activities come via the 6 year old son of my fiancee.
I've already been to the police a couple of months ago, to complain, but the problem can be that it is difficult to prove stuff to get an ASBO or other injunction.
Any PH members had experience in this area?
Being objective for a second, are his activities centred around seeing his son or more towards your fiancee? If it's his son then you may have to accept it somewhat with good grace, whereas if it's more centred around your fiancee then it may need a tactful and polite chat. Ex's make better allies than enemies.
She needs to go to the Civil Court and obtain a non molestation order and a prohibitive steps order.
The forms are long but simple to fill in, they require lots of detail though, there is a court fee of around £50, in exception circumstances the intital order can be issued an ex-parte if this order is made by the judge, you will be given a further appointment to attend at the court. The respondent will be entitled to be present at this appointment so that the judge can then listen to both of you before deciding whether to make another order.
All that said, if it were me and I had my time again, I'd upsticks in the middle of the night and leave no forwarding address.
The forms are long but simple to fill in, they require lots of detail though, there is a court fee of around £50, in exception circumstances the intital order can be issued an ex-parte if this order is made by the judge, you will be given a further appointment to attend at the court. The respondent will be entitled to be present at this appointment so that the judge can then listen to both of you before deciding whether to make another order.
All that said, if it were me and I had my time again, I'd upsticks in the middle of the night and leave no forwarding address.
wedge girl said:
She needs to go to the Civil Court and obtain a non molestation order and a prohibitive steps order.
The forms are long but simple to fill in, they require lots of detail though, there is a court fee of around £50, in exception circumstances the intital order can be issued an ex-parte if this order is made by the judge, you will be given a further appointment to attend at the court. The respondent will be entitled to be present at this appointment so that the judge can then listen to both of you before deciding whether to make another order.
All that said, if it were me and I had my time again, I'd upsticks in the middle of the night and leave no forwarding address.
I'm glad you're not my ex
I know you and I always discuss these things from opposite ends of the debate, but I think it would be easier in this case to resolve things amicably if possible. Not every man is your ex, there are some decent ones out there too.
BliarOut said:
I know you and I always discuss these things from opposite ends of the debate, but I think it would be easier in this case to resolve things amicably if possible. Not every man is your ex, there are some decent ones out there too.
I couldn't agree with you more, but the question was asked, so I gave an answer, it was advice that I could have done with many years ago, and wasn't provided by the police until I was in a safehouse, all a litle too late really.
Oh and just for the record, I managed to sort things out very amicably without courts or solicitors regarding access for my eldest with my other ex, yes I have two, hell I even gave him a house.
Upsticks, run away and you'll be found sooner or later, then what run away again and get found again? You should go to a safe house but make sure you have an address where you can receive legal papers etc then there isn't the need for a tracing agent to find you. Been there done that etc.
As for hubby being at the schools, that's often the only chance they can get to see the children albeit a bit unsettling for the mother. The key here is to ascertain if there is any harmful intent or malice. To often mothers panic and attempt to deny the father access. Often there will be a history of violence towards the mother but not necessarily the child. I hate the way schools always side with the mother and deny a father his parental rights which have already been eroded by the legal system! Oh I'm not a father but can see what's been happening.
Boosted.
As for hubby being at the schools, that's often the only chance they can get to see the children albeit a bit unsettling for the mother. The key here is to ascertain if there is any harmful intent or malice. To often mothers panic and attempt to deny the father access. Often there will be a history of violence towards the mother but not necessarily the child. I hate the way schools always side with the mother and deny a father his parental rights which have already been eroded by the legal system! Oh I'm not a father but can see what's been happening.
Boosted.
While there is a degree of sensibility in the post, I would say the objective question is "Is this because he wants to see his son or your fiancee"?
If it's because he wants to see hs son, and without knowing any of the details, that is an understandable action for an absent parent. If it's because he wants to see his ex, then it's time to gently persuade (No, that doesn't mean a baseball bat!!) him to move on.
If it's because he wants to see hs son, and without knowing any of the details, that is an understandable action for an absent parent. If it's because he wants to see his ex, then it's time to gently persuade (No, that doesn't mean a baseball bat!!) him to move on.
If this is aimed at your fiancee and not the child (I'll leave that debate to the parents) then you can persue two routes -
The non molestation order that wedge girl recommends and also via the Police as Harassment (sp?) - you need to keep very clear records of everything that happens, pass this to the Police reguarly and keep copies of it all. It is very important that you can demonstrate that you have clearly told the ex that his attentions are not welcome and that he should desist - once you've done that and can prove it then you can start counting incidents towards Harassment.
There are some threads on here re stalking - someone else had a problem and I know I posted quite a lot about my partner was stalked by his ex who moved in to the flat opposite his etc. etc.
I have to say I'm very much with wedge girl - the only real way to get out of the situation is to move as far away as possible - using an unmarked van so that they can't trace the removal company - sounds extreme but unfortunately if this is a classic stalker (someone who believes that she does love him and is just playing hard to get) they will not stop and their behaviour will continue to get worse. All the non molestation orders and convictions will not stop him as he won't get locked up for five years - he will just come after her again. BUT to deal with BlairOut's view on this - you can still ensure that the child's father can make contact via solicitors only ensuring that the solicitor knows not to release your new address. He is the childs father and therefore does have rights - but only up unto a point - if his behavious is putting your fiancee in fear of her safety then she has the right to remove herself from that situation. She has my sympathy - I watched my partner deal with the stress of a stalker and it's not pleasant.
***just to repeat - she needs to work out who the attention is aimed at - her or the child ***
The non molestation order that wedge girl recommends and also via the Police as Harassment (sp?) - you need to keep very clear records of everything that happens, pass this to the Police reguarly and keep copies of it all. It is very important that you can demonstrate that you have clearly told the ex that his attentions are not welcome and that he should desist - once you've done that and can prove it then you can start counting incidents towards Harassment.
There are some threads on here re stalking - someone else had a problem and I know I posted quite a lot about my partner was stalked by his ex who moved in to the flat opposite his etc. etc.
I have to say I'm very much with wedge girl - the only real way to get out of the situation is to move as far away as possible - using an unmarked van so that they can't trace the removal company - sounds extreme but unfortunately if this is a classic stalker (someone who believes that she does love him and is just playing hard to get) they will not stop and their behaviour will continue to get worse. All the non molestation orders and convictions will not stop him as he won't get locked up for five years - he will just come after her again. BUT to deal with BlairOut's view on this - you can still ensure that the child's father can make contact via solicitors only ensuring that the solicitor knows not to release your new address. He is the childs father and therefore does have rights - but only up unto a point - if his behavious is putting your fiancee in fear of her safety then she has the right to remove herself from that situation. She has my sympathy - I watched my partner deal with the stress of a stalker and it's not pleasant.
***just to repeat - she needs to work out who the attention is aimed at - her or the child ***
Keep a log. Get a mutal friend (or solicitor) to tell him to stop. When he doesn't it is an offence under the Protection from Harassment Act. He has to know that it is causing her alaram, harassment or distress before the police can nail him (thus the solicitor or friend). If he keeps on it will be time in the pokie for him.
Have a look here
www.hamishbrownmbe.com/3636.html Good publications.
Have a look here
www.hamishbrownmbe.com/3636.html Good publications.
Sorry the link works but the document has been moved on the Home Office site. There is one about kids on there but
Try www.crimereduction.co.uk/stalking01.htm
Try www.crimereduction.co.uk/stalking01.htm
smithsi said:
My fiancee has big problems with her ex-husband who continues to cause trouble, nothing that is easily proven in a court of law, but the sort of activity is:
1. Tailing in the car.
2. Hanging around where we live.
3. Hanging around the school of his son with my fiancee, when he has no reason to be there (they have a contact order so that basically they should not have to come into contact).
So what exactly has this bloke done wrong in the past? You seem to imply malice, could he not just want to see his kid?
smithsi said:
The problem can be that a lot of his activities come via the 6 year old son of my fiancee.
What do you mean by this statement? Are they related to his son or are you saying that his son tells you about it, or what?
smithsi said:
I've already been to the police a couple of months ago, to complain, but the problem can be that it is difficult to prove stuff to get an ASBO or other injunction.
Any PH members had experience in this area?
Is this guy a threat or is your fiancee (like many other women) using restricted access to his kid to punish him for something?
silversun said:
TeamD, you're undoing all your good work!
No he's not! Once again, I agree with him (this is becoming a regular habit)
If the bloke is just trying to see his child and the mother only allows limited access, then I don't see what he's doing wrong. If he's stalking the mother, that's a different situation entirely.
>> Edited by mrs trackside on Thursday 3rd November 11:02
silversun said:
TeamD, you're undoing all your good work!
I'm only asking the question. Surely even you can admit that a certain proportion of separated mothers use their offspring as weapons to inflict pain upon their "absent" fathers? All I was asking for was some clarification as to whether this chap has "previous" when it comes to threatening or violent behaviour and if, therefore, the root posters fears were founded or not. Let's face it, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that this is a case of fiancee working on root poster to build hostility against ex-hubby, it's been known to happen, wouldn't want them comparing notes would she? Why is it that just because I don't instantly believe that all men are evil, violent, child molesting b@stards and women are all sweetness and light, that I am the bad guy?
mrs trackside said:
No he's not! Once again, I agree with him (this is becoming a regular habit)
If the bloke is just trying to see his child and the mother only allows limited access, then I don't see what he's doing wrong. If he's stalking the mother, that's a different situation entirely.
No, I know. I was winding him up.
But behaving like a stalker is possibly not the best way to convince the courts and your ex that you should be allowed to see your child more. There may be all kinds of reasons that access is limited. Just an observation.
silversun said:
No, I know. I was winding him up.
Easily done on this subject as you know.
We all have our own experiences are they tend to colour the way we see certain situations. Mine is a tendancy to work on the basis that I cannot believe that anything but a small minority of "absent" fathers are abusive towards their ex's or offspring, I accept that some are and their ex-families need to be protected from them. Wedge girl sees things from a different angle and in the light of her experiences I can't hold that against her nor would I want to, I'm not THAT kind of man. To some extent, by having two very polarized views put forward demonstrates the need for calm and considered action regarding this matter. There's no point in going at it half cocked, if the guy is a danger then collect the evidence, put it before the court and get him sorted out, if not, then ask the question, "Why am I being asked to believe that he is a problem?", because maybe he is just an inconvenience, a hangover from a previous life, an impediment to the current game of happy families?
You never know.
silversun said:
But behaving like a stalker is possibly not the best way to convince the courts and your ex that you should be allowed to see your child more. There may be all kinds of reasons that access is limited. Just an observation.
Agreed, but some limitations are based upon lies, there are many ways to view a certain situation, we have too little information to do anything but surmise what might be going on here.
The activities appear to be more to do with being a nuisance.
For example bringing things up before the courts which need not be:
* Ringing the door bell with no answer.
* Raising issues at the school which are non issues i.e. for example 6 year old has a fight at school (how many fights did we have at school?)
The guy has a history of domestic violence against my fiancee, problem is that the burden of proof is difficult. We often find out from the little boy (aged 6) what has transpired rather than through other means.
The police seem to be not very helpful, and I do find that on the one occassion that I go down there as a white male, rather than a foreign female, I get far more done by knowing the legislation.
Police: Civil Matter
Me: No it's not under the 1997 Harassment Act this contributes an offence under criminal law.
Thanks for all your replies
For example bringing things up before the courts which need not be:
* Ringing the door bell with no answer.
* Raising issues at the school which are non issues i.e. for example 6 year old has a fight at school (how many fights did we have at school?)
The guy has a history of domestic violence against my fiancee, problem is that the burden of proof is difficult. We often find out from the little boy (aged 6) what has transpired rather than through other means.
The police seem to be not very helpful, and I do find that on the one occassion that I go down there as a white male, rather than a foreign female, I get far more done by knowing the legislation.
Police: Civil Matter
Me: No it's not under the 1997 Harassment Act this contributes an offence under criminal law.
Thanks for all your replies
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