PayPal scamming people?
Discussion
I'm just wondering if anyone here has been scammed out of money from PayPal?
I sold my Xbox on eBay and 3 months later received a "chargeback request" from the third party even though the feedback in eBay was "item received".
It took 4 months to get my £150 back and this involved writing numerous letters, sending insane quantities of information to PayPal, taking legal advice, threatening them with a solicitor and finally getting the Financial Ombudman Service in to tell PayPal to get real and refund my money immediately or be threatened with legal issues from them and the FSA.
I also found out some dodgy information on PayPal. They don't have an office as such in the UK. It's not a PO Box but an empty office where a fella collects the mail once a week and sends it off to Ireland, and then on to the US.
Additionally, none of their customer services people have any knowledge of UK law. In fact, I would be suprised if they knew where the UK was. I was told by one I would require a Federal Warrant to release information regarding my case and she told me I was talking nonsense with the Data Protection and Freedom of Information Act!!!!
I also found out that a lot of their policies and T&C's are illegal within the UK and some parts of Europe so if challenged, they will back down without a second thought.
PayPal also have an interesting habit of double claiming on chargebacks. As a credit card merchant, they must have insurance protecting themselves (and you), and are able to claim back any chargebacks through their merchant insurance so no need to put the cost on you. But they do anyway and thus claim twice the money. Illegal? According to the FOS, definately yes and they are being investigated.
What planet are they on!!?!?
Anyhow, it would be interesting to hear other peoples stories and if things went wrong, how much you lost.
If your fighting a case against them, drop me a line and I'll try and help you with my experiences.
If everything you did was legal, then you can get your money back.
Also, for future advice, keep ALL your postal reciepts for 12 months as a chargeback can occur in that time. Finally, ensure the email of the buyer does not change throughout the transaction and try and get their landline telephone number.
At the end of the day, I boycott PayPal and will never trade with them again.
>> Edited by beanbag on Tuesday 18th October 13:06
I sold my Xbox on eBay and 3 months later received a "chargeback request" from the third party even though the feedback in eBay was "item received".
It took 4 months to get my £150 back and this involved writing numerous letters, sending insane quantities of information to PayPal, taking legal advice, threatening them with a solicitor and finally getting the Financial Ombudman Service in to tell PayPal to get real and refund my money immediately or be threatened with legal issues from them and the FSA.
I also found out some dodgy information on PayPal. They don't have an office as such in the UK. It's not a PO Box but an empty office where a fella collects the mail once a week and sends it off to Ireland, and then on to the US.
Additionally, none of their customer services people have any knowledge of UK law. In fact, I would be suprised if they knew where the UK was. I was told by one I would require a Federal Warrant to release information regarding my case and she told me I was talking nonsense with the Data Protection and Freedom of Information Act!!!!
I also found out that a lot of their policies and T&C's are illegal within the UK and some parts of Europe so if challenged, they will back down without a second thought.
PayPal also have an interesting habit of double claiming on chargebacks. As a credit card merchant, they must have insurance protecting themselves (and you), and are able to claim back any chargebacks through their merchant insurance so no need to put the cost on you. But they do anyway and thus claim twice the money. Illegal? According to the FOS, definately yes and they are being investigated.
What planet are they on!!?!?
Anyhow, it would be interesting to hear other peoples stories and if things went wrong, how much you lost.
If your fighting a case against them, drop me a line and I'll try and help you with my experiences.
If everything you did was legal, then you can get your money back.
Also, for future advice, keep ALL your postal reciepts for 12 months as a chargeback can occur in that time. Finally, ensure the email of the buyer does not change throughout the transaction and try and get their landline telephone number.
At the end of the day, I boycott PayPal and will never trade with them again.
>> Edited by beanbag on Tuesday 18th October 13:06
Never had a problem with Paypal but I think the govenment are after them and have been for a long time for not paying local taxes (bit like Ebay) as they hold an offshore account in Sweden?
Trying to email them is a problem but even harder to speak to a real person at Ebay.
The only thing I disagree with is their charges Nochex and others are better but they are not as global as Paypal - Oh and you can forget Western Union.
Trying to email them is a problem but even harder to speak to a real person at Ebay.
The only thing I disagree with is their charges Nochex and others are better but they are not as global as Paypal - Oh and you can forget Western Union.
not had a problem with them myself, but I did come across a website once it was something like dontusepaypal.com or hatepaypal.com (something like that) with literally hundreds/thousands of people who have had money held/taken not refunded etc.. I have heard they do have a lot of problems.
soir said:
not had a problem with them myself, but I did come across a website once it was something like dontusepaypal.com or hatepaypal.com (something like that) with literally hundreds/thousands of people who have had money held/taken not refunded etc.. I have heard they do have a lot of problems.
The website is www.paypalsucks.com. It's quite an interesting site, but equally has a lot of rubbish on there. Partially with kids creating accounts and doing stupid things.
I used them for some advice but most of my information came from reading the PayPal policies and legal information and then getting friends in the legal profession to help me out.
Had the same thing happen to me, forced £50 out of my account on a case where the buyer says he has not received the item when it was posted by me personally. Unfortunately I did not send it recorded so had no proof of sending other than the testimony of my employer who i bought the packaging and stamps off. They did not even request the proof, they just forced the refund.
I suspect the bastard buyer has got the items, realised it was not sent recorded delivery and has pulled a fast one. Twat.
Paypal has had my account locked for a good three weeks cos of this with no way to carry on trading even thought I have been cooperative, offered all the help and evidence i can and have had £70 removed from my Bank account to cover this.
I suspect the bastard buyer has got the items, realised it was not sent recorded delivery and has pulled a fast one. Twat.
Paypal has had my account locked for a good three weeks cos of this with no way to carry on trading even thought I have been cooperative, offered all the help and evidence i can and have had £70 removed from my Bank account to cover this.
spandexx said:
Had the same thing happen to me, forced £50 out of my account on a case where the buyer says he has not received the item when it was posted by me personally. Unfortunately I did not send it recorded so had no proof of sending other than the testimony of my employer who i bought the packaging and stamps off. They did not even request the proof, they just forced the refund.
I suspect the bastard buyer has got the items, realised it was not sent recorded delivery and has pulled a fast one. Twat.
Paypal has had my account locked for a good three weeks cos of this with no way to carry on trading even thought I have been cooperative, offered all the help and evidence i can and have had £70 removed from my Bank account to cover this.
£70 removed from your bank? Why and how?
PayPal have no legal right to take money from your account. If they do this, it's theft. Pure and simple.
beanbag said:
Had the same thing happen to me, forced £50 out of my account on a case where the buyer says he has not received the item when it was posted by me personally. Unfortunately I did not send it recorded so had no proof of sending other than the testimony of my employer who i bought the packaging and stamps off. They did not even request the proof, they just forced the refund.
I suspect the bastard buyer has got the items, realised it was not sent recorded delivery and has pulled a fast one. Twat.
Paypal has had my account locked for a good three weeks cos of this with no way to carry on trading even thought I have been cooperative, offered all the help and evidence i can and have had £70 removed from my Bank account to cover this.
£70 removed from your bank? Why and how?
PayPal have no legal right to take money from your account. If they do this, it's theft. Pure and simple.
Paypal can take money from your CURRENT ACCOUNT (or whatever account is linked to your paypal a/c). I don't know it it is legal but they CAN do it and do if your paypal account has no funds when a 'problem' is raised.
Paypal - great idea run by ineffective arseholes (sorry Ted)
maxf said:
spandexx said:
Had the same thing happen to me, forced £50 out of my account on a case where the buyer says he has not received the item when it was posted by me personally. Unfortunately I did not send it recorded so had no proof of sending other than the testimony of my employer who i bought the packaging and stamps off. They did not even request the proof, they just forced the refund.
I suspect the bastard buyer has got the items, realised it was not sent recorded delivery and has pulled a fast one. Twat.
Paypal has had my account locked for a good three weeks cos of this with no way to carry on trading even thought I have been cooperative, offered all the help and evidence i can and have had £70 removed from my Bank account to cover this.
£70 removed from your bank? Why and how?
PayPal have no legal right to take money from your account. If they do this, it's theft. Pure and simple.
Paypal can take money from your CURRENT ACCOUNT (or whatever account is linked to your paypal a/c). I don't know it it is legal but they CAN do it and do if your paypal account has no funds when a 'problem' is raised.
Paypal - great idea run by ineffective arseholes (sorry Ted)
If you speak to them, they will openly admit they cannot do this.
Plus, it's illegal. If they have done this, then I'd threaten them legally.
maxf said:
Paypal can take money from your CURRENT ACCOUNT (or whatever account is linked to your paypal a/c). I don't know it it is legal but they CAN do it and do if your paypal account has no funds when a 'problem' is raised.
You don't need to link a current account to your PayPal account. I only use a credit (not debit) card, and the transfer funds out using BACS. I think you can set up a Direct Debit to add funds to PayPal, and it is theoretically possible for them to withdraw funds using that, but that would be against the DD guarantee and almost certainly highly illegal. It does happen in the US though, the banking system is technically a bit different over there.
I *have* heard about people receiving court summonses from a debt collection against when a PayPal payment has been reversed leaving their account with a negative ballance.
As mentioned, when using PayPal always always send the goods by a traceable method. This doesn't stop the buyer claiming the package was empty but it gets your part of the way there. Be extra cautious when selling certain types of goods - eg. mobile phones, games consoles and games, other small desirable eletrical goods. Also photograph the serial numbers of goods that you sell. A popular scam is to post back an idential but broken product and claim you are selling duff gear.
Gareth
beanbag said:Have you people actually spoken to people on the Paypal help line. I have, and I have been very impressed with their helpful attitude. Both times I have contacted them they have solved the problem for me and contacted me a couple of weeks later to make sure I was happy with the outcome. I don't know this Paypal you lot are writing about but it can't be the one I use.
beanbag said:
spandexx said:
Had the same thing happen to me, forced £50 out of my account on a case where the buyer says he has not received the item when it was posted by me personally. Unfortunately I did not send it recorded so had no proof of sending other than the testimony of my employer who i bought the packaging and stamps off. They did not even request the proof, they just forced the refund.
I suspect the bastard buyer has got the items, realised it was not sent recorded delivery and has pulled a fast one. Twat.
Paypal has had my account locked for a good three weeks cos of this with no way to carry on trading even thought I have been cooperative, offered all the help and evidence i can and have had £70 removed from my Bank account to cover this.
£70 removed from your bank? Why and how?
PayPal have no legal right to take money from your account. If they do this, it's theft. Pure and simple.
Paypal can take money from your CURRENT ACCOUNT (or whatever account is linked to your paypal a/c). I don't know it it is legal but they CAN do it and do if your paypal account has no funds when a 'problem' is raised.
Paypal - great idea run by ineffective arseholes (sorry Ted)
If you speak to them, they will openly admit they cannot do this.
Plus, it's illegal. If they have done this, then I'd threaten them legally.
tvrbob said:
Have you people actually spoken to people on the Paypal help line. I have, and I have been very impressed with their helpful attitude. Both times I have contacted them they have solved the problem for me and contacted me a couple of weeks later to make sure I was happy with the outcome. I don't know this Paypal you lot are writing about but it can't be the one I use.
Yes, and the people I spoke to were inherently stupid without any knowledge of the law and refused to provide any useful information. In fact, I was told by one customer support person that PayPal Europe was a European company and not a UK company.
I had to really control myself with those conversations. In fact, most of them seemed to speak from a script since everything they said was very similar to one another.
Also...a useful tip is to record your telephone conversations. (The Sony Ericsson K700i and T6xxi series have brilliant recording features).
Remember to mention to them that you are recording though as if you don't it won't be legally binding if you have to go to court.
In fairness my experiences stem from about 3 or 4 years ago when I was doing lots of trading with people in the US/Japan. It was common knowledge in the circles I dealt with that paypal were perfectly able to scam the hell out of you and take money from your account. This may be because it was a US company then, rather than worldwide though?
I knew a worrying number of people who had beenn scammed - some for large amounts (one chap about $10,000 IIRC)
I knew a worrying number of people who had beenn scammed - some for large amounts (one chap about $10,000 IIRC)
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