Ken Clarke inHuman Rights Shocka !
Discussion
Tobacco firm has secret North Korea plant
Firm with Tories' Ken Clarke on payroll runs factory in country with grim human rights record
Ian Cobain and David Leigh
Monday October 17, 2005
The Guardian
British American Tobacco, the world's second largest cigarette company, has secretly been operating a factory in North Korea for the past four years, the Guardian has learned. The company opened the plant in a joint venture with a state owned corporation shortly before the regime was denounced by George Bush as a member of the "axis of evil", and despite widespread concern over the country's human rights record.
BAT has never mentioned the factory in its annual accounts, and it is thought that many shareholders are unaware of its links with the country.
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The discovery of the secret factory comes two years after BAT was forced to pull out of Myanmar, formerly Burma, under pressure from the UK government and human rights campaigners. The human rights record of the communist regime in North Korea is widely regarded as even worse than that of the brutal military dictatorship in Burma.
The disclosure of the existence of the plant comes a day before the first ballot in the Conservative leadership election in which Ken Clarke, BAT's non-executive deputy chairman, is a candidate.
BAT confirmed that Mr Clarke, who has been on the company's payroll since 1998, was aware of the decision to invest in North Korea. The firm has also said that as chair of BAT's corporate social responsibility audit committee, Mr Clarke "would oversee human rights reports on all countries where we operate".
Mr Clarke declined to comment, although he has previously denied any impropriety in his role with BAT.
The anti-smoking group Ash said: "It seems that there is no regime so awful and no country so repressive that BAT does not want to do business there. It beggars belief that an MP like Ken Clarke could be taken seriously as a candidate to lead a major political party."
Mr Clarke could face an investigation by the Commons health committee over accusations that he gave false evidence to parliament when he denied BAT was embroiled in international cigarette smuggling. Mr Clarke dismissed the smuggling claims as "nonsense" five days after BAT's lawyers had confirmed that certain claims were true, in an internal letter which subsequently came to light in the US. Mr Clarke has denied giving false evidence.
Full Link :[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/smoking/Story/0,2763,1593809,00.html[/url]
Axis of evil ? Huamn rights abuses ? Lies to parliament ? Ken Clarke in the thick of it ? Even for a tory this is extraordinary. Do we really want this guy as the next leader of Britain ?
(I'm surprised you missed this one, Mon Ami Mate )
Firm with Tories' Ken Clarke on payroll runs factory in country with grim human rights record
Ian Cobain and David Leigh
Monday October 17, 2005
The Guardian
British American Tobacco, the world's second largest cigarette company, has secretly been operating a factory in North Korea for the past four years, the Guardian has learned. The company opened the plant in a joint venture with a state owned corporation shortly before the regime was denounced by George Bush as a member of the "axis of evil", and despite widespread concern over the country's human rights record.
BAT has never mentioned the factory in its annual accounts, and it is thought that many shareholders are unaware of its links with the country.
Article continues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The discovery of the secret factory comes two years after BAT was forced to pull out of Myanmar, formerly Burma, under pressure from the UK government and human rights campaigners. The human rights record of the communist regime in North Korea is widely regarded as even worse than that of the brutal military dictatorship in Burma.
The disclosure of the existence of the plant comes a day before the first ballot in the Conservative leadership election in which Ken Clarke, BAT's non-executive deputy chairman, is a candidate.
BAT confirmed that Mr Clarke, who has been on the company's payroll since 1998, was aware of the decision to invest in North Korea. The firm has also said that as chair of BAT's corporate social responsibility audit committee, Mr Clarke "would oversee human rights reports on all countries where we operate".
Mr Clarke declined to comment, although he has previously denied any impropriety in his role with BAT.
The anti-smoking group Ash said: "It seems that there is no regime so awful and no country so repressive that BAT does not want to do business there. It beggars belief that an MP like Ken Clarke could be taken seriously as a candidate to lead a major political party."
Mr Clarke could face an investigation by the Commons health committee over accusations that he gave false evidence to parliament when he denied BAT was embroiled in international cigarette smuggling. Mr Clarke dismissed the smuggling claims as "nonsense" five days after BAT's lawyers had confirmed that certain claims were true, in an internal letter which subsequently came to light in the US. Mr Clarke has denied giving false evidence.
Full Link :[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/smoking/Story/0,2763,1593809,00.html[/url]
Axis of evil ? Huamn rights abuses ? Lies to parliament ? Ken Clarke in the thick of it ? Even for a tory this is extraordinary. Do we really want this guy as the next leader of Britain ?
(I'm surprised you missed this one, Mon Ami Mate )
bor said:
Axis of evil ? Huamn rights abuses ? Lies to parliament ? Ken Clarke in the thick of it ? Even for a tory this is extraordinary. Do we really want this guy as the next leader of Britain ?
(I'm surprised you missed this one, Mon Ami Mate )
Even more so now. Despite the fact that smoking nearly killed me I definately definately want the next prime minister to be a beer swilling smoker. Preferably an athiest with no morals.
It would be really good if his manifesto talked of the EEC not the EU, if he made statements like human rights are suspeded for terrorists, particularly animal rights terrorists and anti road terrorists. It would also to be good news if he promised to change the charter of the civil service so they get fired at the end of every government. Oh and scrapping the BBC would be good too.
bor said:
Tobacco firm has secret North Korea plant
Firm with Tories' Ken Clarke on payroll runs factory in country with grim human rights record
Ian Cobain and David Leigh
Monday October 17, 2005
The Guardian
British American Tobacco, the world's second largest cigarette company, has secretly been operating a factory in North Korea for the past four years, the Guardian has learned. The company opened the plant in a joint venture with a state owned corporation shortly before the regime was denounced by George Bush as a member of the "axis of evil", and despite widespread concern over the country's human rights record.
BAT has never mentioned the factory in its annual accounts, and it is thought that many shareholders are unaware of its links with the country.
Article continues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The discovery of the secret factory comes two years after BAT was forced to pull out of Myanmar, formerly Burma, under pressure from the UK government and human rights campaigners. The human rights record of the communist regime in North Korea is widely regarded as even worse than that of the brutal military dictatorship in Burma.
The disclosure of the existence of the plant comes a day before the first ballot in the Conservative leadership election in which Ken Clarke, BAT's non-executive deputy chairman, is a candidate.
BAT confirmed that Mr Clarke, who has been on the company's payroll since 1998, was aware of the decision to invest in North Korea. The firm has also said that as chair of BAT's corporate social responsibility audit committee, Mr Clarke "would oversee human rights reports on all countries where we operate".
Mr Clarke declined to comment, although he has previously denied any impropriety in his role with BAT.
The anti-smoking group Ash said: "It seems that there is no regime so awful and no country so repressive that BAT does not want to do business there. It beggars belief that an MP like Ken Clarke could be taken seriously as a candidate to lead a major political party."
Mr Clarke could face an investigation by the Commons health committee over accusations that he gave false evidence to parliament when he denied BAT was embroiled in international cigarette smuggling. Mr Clarke dismissed the smuggling claims as "nonsense" five days after BAT's lawyers had confirmed that certain claims were true, in an internal letter which subsequently came to light in the US. Mr Clarke has denied giving false evidence.
Full Link :[url]www.guardian.co.uk/smoking/Story/0,2763,1593809,00.html[/url]
Axis of evil ? Huamn rights abuses ? Lies to parliament ? Ken Clarke in the thick of it ? Even for a tory this is extraordinary. Do we really want this guy as the next leader of Britain ?
(I'm surprised you missed this one, Mon Ami Mate )
There is nothing illegal in the activities of BAT and there is nothing illegal in Ken Clarke's involvement with BAT. It may upset a lot of earnest, PC lefties that BAT is what it is and that Ken Clarke has an interest, but to me that is a positive thing. The more earnest lefties anybody can upset, the better I like it.
Sadly Ken will drop from the leadership contest tomorrow. I think he's going to throw his weight behind Cameron, and I believe this will be a powerful alliance that will see Cameron all the way through to Number 10. Then we can upset earnest PC lefties on a national scale.
los Angeles said:
"Cameron"? Wouldn't be any Scottish lineage in there, Mon Ami?
Very likely I would imagine. I'm not prejudiced against Scots, or anybody else for that matter. I don't care where his antecedents come from. I'm just happy that he is an excellent potential leader with a very bright future ahead of him.
nonegreen said:
Cameron is unelectable so thats Blair in for another 5 years then. When are the conservative w*nkers going to understand they need someone with more personality than a plank of wood?
you are wrong.
Of the candidates (other than clarke who looks like he is out), he is the only one the general public ( i talk to ) actually seem to like.
nonegreen said:
Cameron is unelectable so thats Blair in for another 5 years then. When are the conservative w*nkers going to understand they need someone with more personality than a plank of wood?
It goes without saying that I don't agree with you, but I'm interested in your view and what you have seen of Cameron that has led you to feel this way.
bor said:
Is Cameron the one who "likes the snow ????
No, Cameron is the one who has had a completely normal upbringing, much like you, me, or the next man. Typical piece of attempted character assassination from worried lefties this - they like their Labour MPs to be cool "men of the people" and their Conservatives to be out of touch and holier than thou. Now they are worried because the new generation of Conservatives bucks the stereotype and is showing signs of seizing their ground...
los Angeles said:
Snow? I know nothing of this candidate, Mon Ami, so it's over to you.
He has helped a relative recover from heroin addiction. Because of this a nasty rumour has been put about that he is a drug user. His response has been to neither confirm nor deny that he may ever have tried drugs, and to emphasise that MPs are entitled to a life before politics.
It's all a load of scurrilous nonsense put about by people who are scared of losing their jobs.
Here's his biog from the party website:
ABOUT DAVID
Prior to becoming a Member of Parliament, David was the Head of Corporate Affairs at Carlton Communications Plc, one of the UK's leading media companies.
Born in 1966, David was brought up near Wantage, just over the border, in West Berkshire. He was educated at Eton and won an exhibition to Brasenose College, Oxford. He graduated in 1988 with a first class honours degree in Politics, Philosophy and Economics.
David married Samantha, a successful creative designer and artist, in 1996.
David 's Experience
David worked for the Conservative Research Department between 1988 and 1992, spending two days a week in Downing Street on the Prime Minister's Question Time briefing team.
After the 1992 election, David worked as a Special Advisor in the Treasury and then moved on to the Home Office where he worked for Home Secretary Michael Howard. At the Home Office David worked on some of the biggest reforms to the Criminal justice system in the last fifty years.
David helped to devise the "CCTV challenge scheme" which is now providing thousands of cameras in towns and cities up and down the UK.
In June 2001, he was elected MP for Witney. In June 2003, he was appointed a Shadow Minister, Privy Council Office - part of the frontbench team shadowing the Leader of the House of Commons. In November 2003, he was made a Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party. In March 2004, he was appointed a Shadow Minister for Local Government.
In June 2004, he became Head of Policy Co-ordination for the Conservative Party and served as a member of the Shadow Cabinet. Since May 2005, he has been the Shadow Secretary of State for Education & Skills.
los Angeles said:
PS: How the hell do you manage to type so fast?
I don't. I just copy and paste with conviction.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4651553.stm
los Angeles said:
Surely Kenneth Clarke, for all his political experience and heavy-weight persona, is far too old-guard to be considered the best candidate for the rest of this decade. Perhaps he should be deputy, a wise counsel to a younger leader, although I'm not sure he'd accept second-best.
He has hinted he might join a Cameron shadow cabinet.
Not exactly making headline news is it?
Dig deep into any of their past and they all have some shady dealings. Why do you think they can afford £3 million pound houses? and 'downsize' into a million pound property even when made bankrupt, other mortals would have to forfit the lot but oh no.....
Bent the lot of them, just some are more bent than others.
Dig deep into any of their past and they all have some shady dealings. Why do you think they can afford £3 million pound houses? and 'downsize' into a million pound property even when made bankrupt, other mortals would have to forfit the lot but oh no.....
Bent the lot of them, just some are more bent than others.
Agree, this whole David Cameron thing is a joke
I noticed the Mail On Sunday desparately flogging the dead horse with that picture of DC's friend 20 years ago with someone who used cocaine (I would guesstimate 80% of the people in that Oxbridge set 20 years ago were doing it, and you show me a squeaky clean MP and I'll show you a liar)
As long as he isn't going to disappear between questions at PMQs to do a line, I don't care
I noticed the Mail On Sunday desparately flogging the dead horse with that picture of DC's friend 20 years ago with someone who used cocaine (I would guesstimate 80% of the people in that Oxbridge set 20 years ago were doing it, and you show me a squeaky clean MP and I'll show you a liar)
As long as he isn't going to disappear between questions at PMQs to do a line, I don't care
Mon Ami Mate said:
Cameron is unelectable so thats Blair in for another 5 years then. When are the conservative w*nkers going to understand they need someone with more personality than a plank of wood?
It goes without saying that I don't agree with you, but I'm interested in your view and what you have seen of Cameron that has led you to feel this way.
Its simple, he looks exactly like Blair did when he got elected. The people are sick to death of politicians who try to be everyones freind. What we need to see is someone who is prepared to disagree and tackle issues. Succesive governments have been getting it wrong now for over a hundred years. They have progressed from ignorant morons with no humanity to one size fits all clones of one another. Clarke is one of the few politicians who is at least flawed like the rest of us. In contrast to phoney Tony Bush is bible bashing biggoted boozer but I would vote for him because the nation would be safe in the hands of someone so dim that the David Beggs of this world would be lulled into a false sense of superiority and therfore shoot themsleves in the foot. We need a fairly ordinary man in Number 10 who like big knockers and few beers, not some toffee nosed pseudo intellectual who can pontificate magnificently but knows nothing about anything important.
nonegreen said:
Its simple, he looks exactly like Blair did when he got elected.
Not the most important quality in a politician.
nonegreen said:
The people are sick to death of politicians who try to be everyones freind. What we need to see is someone who is prepared to disagree and tackle issues. Succesive governments have been getting it wrong now for over a hundred years. They have progressed from ignorant morons with no humanity to one size fits all clones of one another.
Yes they have, however, I don't think you're being very fair to Cameron, who seems to be a very genuine chap, not over-earnest like Bliar.
nonegreen said:
Clarke is one of the few politicians who is at least flawed like the rest of us. In contrast to phoney Tony Bush is bible bashing biggoted boozer but I would vote for him because the nation would be safe in the hands of someone so dim that the David Beggs of this world would be lulled into a false sense of superiority and therfore shoot themsleves in the foot.
I would agree that Clarke is probably the best man for the job, but I daresay the Tory membership are too blue rinse and too stupid to elect him as leader. However, Cameron would be the next best thing. Just please God don't let it be David Fu**ing Davis, an utter non-entity and intellectual pygmy.
I'd like to see politicians for whom politics is a second career, having done 20-30 years out there in the real world, private sector, earning a living.
The death of politics is the swing over the last 15 years towards career politicans who have never done anything except debate intellectual ideals from student days, through local councils, and then groomed to be an MP.
If David Begg had ever had to commute to a real job he wouldn't be so Stalinist in his ideals for 'the masses' to have their travel choices made for them, for their own good.
And the same with almost the entire cabinet (I'll make an honourable exception for 2-Jags, much as I dislike his politics).
Unfortunately Cameron strikes me as being another of this breed, however intellectually qualified he may be.
The death of politics is the swing over the last 15 years towards career politicans who have never done anything except debate intellectual ideals from student days, through local councils, and then groomed to be an MP.
If David Begg had ever had to commute to a real job he wouldn't be so Stalinist in his ideals for 'the masses' to have their travel choices made for them, for their own good.
And the same with almost the entire cabinet (I'll make an honourable exception for 2-Jags, much as I dislike his politics).
Unfortunately Cameron strikes me as being another of this breed, however intellectually qualified he may be.
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