Discussion
Dull question or wot...
Had my first appraisal yesterday in six years. My manager has put me down for NVQ level four management. Now this sounds pretty dull and I cant say I'm particuarly looking forward to the prospect of shed loads of extra work but to be fair I have absolutly no idea what these things are.
Any of you guys or gals done a NVQ recently. What can I expect?
regards,
pop
Had my first appraisal yesterday in six years. My manager has put me down for NVQ level four management. Now this sounds pretty dull and I cant say I'm particuarly looking forward to the prospect of shed loads of extra work but to be fair I have absolutly no idea what these things are.
Any of you guys or gals done a NVQ recently. What can I expect?
regards,
pop
NVQ's are meant to be a vocational qualicification, i.e. you write reports on what you do, someone reads it and says you can do the job you already do.
NVQ's are widely recognised and are frequently quoted by people. The higher ones seem to have a bit more appeal, but to be honest I can't see my feelings which echo Nervous's - they are a bit pointless at lower levels and that proliferates up the scale.
In my opinion, NVQ are the result of the culture change which means you need a piece of paper to say you can do something, rather than some one using their noggin and seeing the relevant experience and interviewing you correctly. A good example of that, although not NVQ is the European Computer Driving Licence - even with a Computing Science Degree I was expected to have that piece of paper. Madness!
NVQ's are widely recognised and are frequently quoted by people. The higher ones seem to have a bit more appeal, but to be honest I can't see my feelings which echo Nervous's - they are a bit pointless at lower levels and that proliferates up the scale.
In my opinion, NVQ are the result of the culture change which means you need a piece of paper to say you can do something, rather than some one using their noggin and seeing the relevant experience and interviewing you correctly. A good example of that, although not NVQ is the European Computer Driving Licence - even with a Computing Science Degree I was expected to have that piece of paper. Madness!
anhamgrimmar said:
you write reports on what you do, someone reads it and says you can do the job you already do.
I thought that was ISO9001?
isnt ISO9001 some sort of company certificate?
Yep, for quality assurance... (
) anhamgrimmar said:
the NVQ lvl 3 i've just done was exactly like docevil1 said
...ISO9001 is exactly like Plotloss said...
Sounds like a load of b0!!ocks to me...
Do you really need it?.. If you want to do a qualification do one that gets you from the job your doind now to the next job that you want to be doing- not one that qualifies you to do your own job that you already do....
(unless your a plumber/gas technician and talking about CORGI certification or the electricians equivalent)
Do you really need it?.. If you want to do a qualification do one that gets you from the job your doind now to the next job that you want to be doing- not one that qualifies you to do your own job that you already do....
(unless your a plumber/gas technician and talking about CORGI certification or the electricians equivalent)
I have managed NVQ training and assessment up to about 5 years ago since they were first invented. In that time I have come to the conclusion that they are a complete waste of time. The management qualifications in particular are extreemly tedious. It is unlikely that your assessors and verifiers will have much clue about the job that you do. In your position I would ask if you can swop the NVQ for a CMS or DMS (Diploma or certificate in Management studies) Both of these can end up being an MBA or other Masters degree. They are both taught courses with assessments by assignment and exam verified by a University. Despite the fact that they take at least 1 academic year with 1 night a week study, this will prove far less tedius than an NVQ. The problem with NVQ is similar to the problem with certifying basic literacy and numeracy. I.e. it becomes a certificate of illiteracy or innumeracy and the NVQ becomes a statement that says "I failed at school so I did NVQs"
Most people who come through the level 2 level 3 route eventually seek to drop the NVQs from their CV. Like CSE V GCE they are a second rate qualification. If you have to do an NVQ make sure your assessor is applying the standards and not his or her own little personal likes and dislikes with respect to your portfolio. Unfortunately a lot of academically thick people get to become assessors and as a consequense the power goes to their head
What I have said here is my honest and unbiased opinion and I believe the alternative qualifications I have suggested to be far more use and more universally recognised I hope it is of some help.
Most people who come through the level 2 level 3 route eventually seek to drop the NVQs from their CV. Like CSE V GCE they are a second rate qualification. If you have to do an NVQ make sure your assessor is applying the standards and not his or her own little personal likes and dislikes with respect to your portfolio. Unfortunately a lot of academically thick people get to become assessors and as a consequense the power goes to their head
What I have said here is my honest and unbiased opinion and I believe the alternative qualifications I have suggested to be far more use and more universally recognised I hope it is of some help.
I had to do a NVQ lvl three in aeronautical engineering, in order to be considered for promotion. having looked at companies in a similar field, a NVQ3 is worthless. dont know about the higher levels, but we were told to get these as its an industry wide qualification, and yet its not even enough to get a foot on the ladder. Never mind getting a descent job in civvy street
nervous said:
get a masters, hasnt done me any harm at all. im nearly up to three stars at macdonalds now, which means i can almost bag up fries.
Off topic: Just reminded me of someone we know. His son is a trolley collector at a supermarket but with training he may be upgraded to working on the checkout.
The big problem with NVQ's, IMO, is that it's actually quite expensive to train people properly.
The higher level NVQ's are worth having, I have a feeling that there is a mapping between HND HNC and NVQ.
The trouble is that most companies want trained staff, but they don't want to pay too much for it. The result is that loads of people have worthless pieces of paper.
If you as me it's often better to have fewer better trained people, but that's not the way the world is at the moment.
The higher level NVQ's are worth having, I have a feeling that there is a mapping between HND HNC and NVQ.
The trouble is that most companies want trained staff, but they don't want to pay too much for it. The result is that loads of people have worthless pieces of paper.
If you as me it's often better to have fewer better trained people, but that's not the way the world is at the moment.
dilbert said:
The big problem with NVQ's, IMO, is that it's actually quite expensive to train people properly.
The higher level NVQ's are worth having, I have a feeling that there is a mapping between HND HNC and NVQ.
The trouble is that most companies want trained staff, but they don't want to pay too much for it. The result is that loads of people have worthless pieces of paper.
If you as me it's often better to have fewer better trained people, but that's not the way the world is at the moment.
Essentially there is mapping from all levels. NVQ 2 is supposed to be GCSE O level level 3 is A level level 4 is equivalent to a degree and level 5 to Masters or Post grad diploma. Trouble is its simply not true.
Companies in the UK buy into the whole IIP NVQ idiocy because they get it funded for free. The LSCs are more focussed on league tables and creating administrivia for industry than actually providing the performance improvement it needs. In contrast the US provide little or no government funding for training and as a consequence training is much more focussed on performance improvement than qualifications. As a result US industry provides better quality skills training than happens here in the UK and unless we sack the civil service influence we will soon not have any industrial base with which to compete with. From this point of view, far from scrapping A levels we need to keep them and get without NVQ and the QCA very rapidly.
Ahh, heck.
What do we need engineering for anyway. All it ever does is create environmental problems. You have to train your staff, and everybody has to have a grasp of mathematics. Just think of all that expensive equipment. People have to go to work, and they clog up the roads.
Britain needs to be just one big call center, with at least two large "mall style" supermarkets for each small villiage.
One stays at home, and adds value to people's lives by talking to them on the phone or the internet, and spends ones vast reserves of borrowed cash in the shopping centres.
One obviously drives to and from the shopping centre, in ones eco freindly monster truck, and helps to support the government the environment and the third world by paying speeding fines for sitting in traffic jams.
Every now and then you get a training course where some smart looking dude waves his hands about alot, and hands out different coloured lollipops, to each of the personality styles.
Everyone talks during lunch (smoked salmon sandwiches with cucumber and chicken drumsticks) about feng shui.
Sounds like utopia to me.
I stand outside the smart glass and steel building in the pissing rain smoking my ciggy. I notice that the air conditioner is leaking and is killing a nearby sapling.
By the entrance, the door isn't hanging properly, and because it's made of metal, it's gouged a deep groove in the otherwise pristine marble floor.
I just bugger off quietly and leave the throng to enjoy their cucumber sanwiches, breadsticks and coffee. Sod the remainder of the poxy training course, they'll send me the certificate in the post anyway.
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 12th October 02:05
What do we need engineering for anyway. All it ever does is create environmental problems. You have to train your staff, and everybody has to have a grasp of mathematics. Just think of all that expensive equipment. People have to go to work, and they clog up the roads.
Britain needs to be just one big call center, with at least two large "mall style" supermarkets for each small villiage.
One stays at home, and adds value to people's lives by talking to them on the phone or the internet, and spends ones vast reserves of borrowed cash in the shopping centres.
One obviously drives to and from the shopping centre, in ones eco freindly monster truck, and helps to support the government the environment and the third world by paying speeding fines for sitting in traffic jams.
Every now and then you get a training course where some smart looking dude waves his hands about alot, and hands out different coloured lollipops, to each of the personality styles.
Everyone talks during lunch (smoked salmon sandwiches with cucumber and chicken drumsticks) about feng shui.
Sounds like utopia to me.
I stand outside the smart glass and steel building in the pissing rain smoking my ciggy. I notice that the air conditioner is leaking and is killing a nearby sapling.
By the entrance, the door isn't hanging properly, and because it's made of metal, it's gouged a deep groove in the otherwise pristine marble floor.
I just bugger off quietly and leave the throng to enjoy their cucumber sanwiches, breadsticks and coffee. Sod the remainder of the poxy training course, they'll send me the certificate in the post anyway.
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 12th October 02:05
anhamgrimmar said:
I had to do a NVQ lvl three in aeronautical engineering, in order to be considered for promotion. having looked at companies in a similar field, a NVQ3 is worthless. dont know about the higher levels, but we were told to get these as its an industry wide qualification, and yet its not even enough to get a foot on the ladder. Never mind getting a descent job in civvy street
i'm in a similar situation, i've been working on aircraft for over 20 years, and now to progress any further i have to do a NVQ3, as my old RAF training isnt worth anything, and isn't recognised anymore.
up until a few years ago if i wanted another job, i could have sent my CV off and got it based on my experience, but now unless you have a majic bit of paper you cant get anywhere!
what this is starting to lead to though, is a load of youngsters with loads of bits of paper saying they can do the job, but lacking in the experience to go with it.
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