Abandon reform of services, Tories told by Clarke
Discussion
So in other words one of the best bits of the Tory manifesto at the last election will be abandoned if Clarke becomes leader.
In my view Clarke is not the man to lead the necessary modernisation of the Tories. Not on the grounds of he being too left wing, but because Clarke is a centraliser, which he proved in his various ministerial posts and the Tories most interesting current ideas are their proposals to return power either to the consumers of public services or to the local level.
I can't help thinking that a Tory government under Clarke would be similar to the Labour one we have now, but just with a new set of targets for the public sector to implement.
Full Telegraph article below
The Conservatives should abandon plans for "radical" public service reform until they win back the trust of the voters, Kenneth Clarke said last night.
The former chancellor said the Tories had "no licence from the voters to shake up public services because many people still suspect that we just want to privatise them in order to save money and then cut taxes for our rich friends".
In his first speech on public services since entering the leadership contest, Mr Clarke urged his party to stop depicting the welfare state as a failure.
He also criticised one of the Tories' flagship policies at the last election, saying he did not agree with the use of public money to subsidise private health care provision.
Mr Clarke was addressing a think-tank, the Centre for Social Justice. After attacking Labour for its excessive reliance on targets and bureaucracy, he said there was "no simple solution" to the problems of public service reform.
He said that choice, the private sector and market forces all had a role to play but that they did not provide the whole answer.
Although the Tories had always been committed to maintaining good public services, Labour had been successful at persuading voters otherwise, Mr Clarke said.
"A core task for the new leader of the Conservative Party will be to restore the trust that is needed before the public will accept that we really do want to make public services work better for all," he said.
"It is quite wrong to suggest that the welfare state has failed. It needs to be improved and modernised to meet the high expectations of today's consumer society."
In a clear reference to the Tory policy of offering to pay half the costs of any patient getting an operation done privately, Mr Clarke said: "I do not believe that there should be public subsidy of private provision in health care or anywhere else.
"Citizens should be free to make private provision but it should be allowed to find its own level."
Mr Clarke's leadership campaign suffered a blow when Richard Ottaway, who campaigned for him in the 1997 and 2001 contests, said he was now supporting David Davis.
The Croydon South MP said he was still a great admirer of Mr Clarke but that "the world had moved on". He said the shadow home secretary was "the man who can now give us momentum".
Mr Davis received another boost when every member of his home affairs team in the Commons and the Lords declared their support.
In my view Clarke is not the man to lead the necessary modernisation of the Tories. Not on the grounds of he being too left wing, but because Clarke is a centraliser, which he proved in his various ministerial posts and the Tories most interesting current ideas are their proposals to return power either to the consumers of public services or to the local level.
I can't help thinking that a Tory government under Clarke would be similar to the Labour one we have now, but just with a new set of targets for the public sector to implement.
Full Telegraph article below
The Conservatives should abandon plans for "radical" public service reform until they win back the trust of the voters, Kenneth Clarke said last night.
The former chancellor said the Tories had "no licence from the voters to shake up public services because many people still suspect that we just want to privatise them in order to save money and then cut taxes for our rich friends".
In his first speech on public services since entering the leadership contest, Mr Clarke urged his party to stop depicting the welfare state as a failure.
He also criticised one of the Tories' flagship policies at the last election, saying he did not agree with the use of public money to subsidise private health care provision.
Mr Clarke was addressing a think-tank, the Centre for Social Justice. After attacking Labour for its excessive reliance on targets and bureaucracy, he said there was "no simple solution" to the problems of public service reform.
He said that choice, the private sector and market forces all had a role to play but that they did not provide the whole answer.
Although the Tories had always been committed to maintaining good public services, Labour had been successful at persuading voters otherwise, Mr Clarke said.
"A core task for the new leader of the Conservative Party will be to restore the trust that is needed before the public will accept that we really do want to make public services work better for all," he said.
"It is quite wrong to suggest that the welfare state has failed. It needs to be improved and modernised to meet the high expectations of today's consumer society."
In a clear reference to the Tory policy of offering to pay half the costs of any patient getting an operation done privately, Mr Clarke said: "I do not believe that there should be public subsidy of private provision in health care or anywhere else.
"Citizens should be free to make private provision but it should be allowed to find its own level."
Mr Clarke's leadership campaign suffered a blow when Richard Ottaway, who campaigned for him in the 1997 and 2001 contests, said he was now supporting David Davis.
The Croydon South MP said he was still a great admirer of Mr Clarke but that "the world had moved on". He said the shadow home secretary was "the man who can now give us momentum".
Mr Davis received another boost when every member of his home affairs team in the Commons and the Lords declared their support.
What are they thinking of!
Do they honestly think that saying this is going to make anybody, anybody at all, vote for them?
Does the entire party have a death wish?
Most voters, certainly most of those who once voted conservative, would love any part of the state to just work properly for a change. A few examples follow:-
Education - We pay more and get less. You could slash the further and higher ed budgets by 80 to 90% and it would make no difference at all to this country. we don't need 50% of the country to have a M.mouse degree, we need about 3% to have a useful degree.
Welfare - We pay more and get less. Fraud is rampant. False claims for sickness have become a joke. The family credit system is hopeless. Why can't we have WORKFARE where we expect benefit claimants to actually do something.
NHS - Doctors for reform. Oh sorry that would be too radical (read sensible) we have to pay more and more and more....
Police etc - OK it's not their fault they just enforce the laws but sometimes you do wonder why they choose to ignore some laws but stomp on any infringement of others. Most of the blame rests with the politicians who seem to live in a different world to the rest of us. Crime is a huge problem but we just have to pay for more of the same don't we? Can't actually sort it out can you?
Oh well.
Looks like another protest vote for UKIP from me.
Do they honestly think that saying this is going to make anybody, anybody at all, vote for them?
Does the entire party have a death wish?
Most voters, certainly most of those who once voted conservative, would love any part of the state to just work properly for a change. A few examples follow:-
Education - We pay more and get less. You could slash the further and higher ed budgets by 80 to 90% and it would make no difference at all to this country. we don't need 50% of the country to have a M.mouse degree, we need about 3% to have a useful degree.
Welfare - We pay more and get less. Fraud is rampant. False claims for sickness have become a joke. The family credit system is hopeless. Why can't we have WORKFARE where we expect benefit claimants to actually do something.
NHS - Doctors for reform. Oh sorry that would be too radical (read sensible) we have to pay more and more and more....
Police etc - OK it's not their fault they just enforce the laws but sometimes you do wonder why they choose to ignore some laws but stomp on any infringement of others. Most of the blame rests with the politicians who seem to live in a different world to the rest of us. Crime is a huge problem but we just have to pay for more of the same don't we? Can't actually sort it out can you?
Oh well.
Looks like another protest vote for UKIP from me.
cymtriks said:
NHS - Doctors for reform. Oh sorry that would be too radical (read sensible) we have to pay more and more and more....
What do you mean?
With regard to Clarke's comments, I would have to read them elsewhere, since they are quoted in The Telegraph, which is a pile of crap, but even if they are vaguely accurate, how can you be surprised?
After all, Labour has been voted in 3 times now, because the electorate doesn't trust the Conservatives to manage public services, (not that labour have done much better). If you take this attitude, there will not be another Tory govt for another 12 years.
Another point is that Clarke is quoted as saying 'radical' reforms, define radical for me? That statement doesn't rule out reform, but merely prefixes it with radical which is surely a subjective measure?
968 said:
Another point is that Clarke is quoted as saying 'radical' reforms, define radical for me? That statement doesn't rule out reform, but merely prefixes it with radical which is surely a subjective measure?
Based on what he says
"I do not believe that there should be public subsidy of private provision in health care or anywhere else.
"Citizens should be free to make private provision but it should be allowed to find its own level."
It seems he is abandoning the limited reforms the Tories proposed at the last election.
JagLover said:
Based on what he says
"I do not believe that there should be public subsidy of private provision in health care or anywhere else.
"Citizens should be free to make private provision but it should be allowed to find its own level."
It seems he is abandoning the limited reforms the Tories proposed at the last election.
Rubbish. The Tories policies on health, in the last election were utter crap. Nothing to hold onto, and in no way would they address the problems the NHS faces.
Yes, he is right, citizens should be free to make provision for private care, but again, a vague statement at best here, he may mean that private care will be incentivised. And the NHS shouldn't be subsidising the private sector, it should be able to deal with the capacity of work it faces, without outsourcing, at great cost, to other companies.
peterpeter said:
perhaps mr clarke is just saying what people want to hear....perhaps its just a clever move to appear less "tory" and hence more votable...
But is that what they want to hear?
This is not an argument about the size of government spending, but about how public services are run, if the Tories offer the same policies as Labour why should people vote for them instead?
JagLover said:
Oh well.
Looks like another protest vote for UKIP from me.
Steady on Old Chap, he hasn't been elected leader yet
Looks like he has decided to try and loose the Leadership Election.
Well better to loose a leadership election then the general election and soemtimes Ken Clarke sounds rather new Labour anyhow maybe he will defect.
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