Some questions for boxing fans.......
Discussion
Usual beer fuelled pub debate kicked off last night...
Was Prince Naseem Hamed actually any good? I thought the bloke beat some top fighters before eventually bumping into someone a little bit too wise for him and then vanishing without trace (apart from smashing up SLRs!). My friend insists that he was actually rubbish.....he continued to say that all WBO champs are crap (including Steve Collins, Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank) and never actually fight anyone decent as the WBO titles are worthless......
Opinions please?
>> Edited by DJ111S on Saturday 17th September 15:31
Was Prince Naseem Hamed actually any good? I thought the bloke beat some top fighters before eventually bumping into someone a little bit too wise for him and then vanishing without trace (apart from smashing up SLRs!). My friend insists that he was actually rubbish.....he continued to say that all WBO champs are crap (including Steve Collins, Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank) and never actually fight anyone decent as the WBO titles are worthless......
Opinions please?
>> Edited by DJ111S on Saturday 17th September 15:31
DJ111S said:
Usual beer fuelled pub debate kicked off last night...
Was Prince Naseem Hamed actually any good? I thought the bloke beat some top fighters before eventually bumping into someone a little bit too wise for him and then vanishing without trace (apart from smashing up SLRs!). My friend insists that he was actually rubbish.....he continued to say that all WBO champs are crap (including Steve Collins, Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank) and never actually fight anyone decent as the WBO titles are worthless......
Prince Naseem was good - very good, but has been said, then met Barerra and found he wasn't *that* good. I still expected him to have a rematch though - but his heart wasn't in it and I'm nor mine would have been, looking at Naz's bank balance.
Benn, collins and Eubank were all very good fighters, Benn perhaps the 'hardest' of the three - witness his McLellan, Barklay and Doug de Witt fights ... agreed, Eubank couldn't finish people off after the Watson fight, which is to be expected really. Collins was good, he beat Eubank, but he psyched him out and he had Collins nearly out in that fight but continued to showboat.
WBO belts don't add a lot to kudos if you hold the WBA or WBC belts, so if the money isn't there, the fight won't be made ... there aren't that many boxers any more who look to clean up their division, there's always more money to be made if they go up half a weight, say from middleweight to super middle, and fight that division's WBA or WBC champ ...
MikeyT said:
Prince Naseem was good - very good, but has been said, then met Barerra and found he wasn't *that* good. I still expected him to have a rematch though - but his heart wasn't in it and I'm nor mine would have been, looking at Naz's bank balance.
Benn, collins and Eubank were all very good fighters, Benn perhaps the 'hardest' of the three - witness his McLellan, Barklay and Doug de Witt fights ... agreed, Eubank couldn't finish people off after the Watson fight, which is to be expected really. Collins was good, he beat Eubank, but he psyched him out and he had Collins nearly out in that fight but continued to showboat.
WBO belts don't add a lot to kudos if you hold the WBA or WBC belts, so if the money isn't there, the fight won't be made ... there aren't that many boxers any more who look to clean up their division, there's always more money to be made if they go up half a weight, say from middleweight to super middle, and fight that division's WBA or WBC champ ...
Agree with all that, Benn was definitly the more aggressive, but his chin did not match his heart - once he was caught, it took him a long time in the round to recover, Eubank was the more rounded of all three, good chin, heart of a lion and a healthy belief in himself - surely one of the best at the time. All three (including Watson) were great, the pride and courage they possessed was immense
Don't know what happened to Prince Naseem, I remember watching hom fight before he got beat, he did seem to pack a punch and move well, but that silly 'Sean Paul a like' false accentthat the Chavs have now adopted, grated! Obviosly, after all his hot air about being the best got to him after his defeat, not heard anything more of him since!
>> Edited by chris watton on Saturday 17th September 17:32
DJ111S said:
Usual beer fuelled pub debate kicked off last night...
Was Prince Naseem Hamed actually any good? I thought the bloke beat some top fighters before eventually bumping into someone a little bit too wise for him and then vanishing without trace (apart from smashing up SLRs!). My friend insists that he was actually rubbish.....he continued to say that all WBO champs are crap (including Steve Collins, Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank) and never actually fight anyone decent as the WBO titles are worthless......
Opinions please?
>> Edited by DJ111S on Saturday 17th September 15:31
He doesn't know what he's talking about.
WBO maybe doesn't hold as much kudos as WBC, WBA and IBF.However,
Hamed was WBC, IBF and WBO World champion.
Nigel Benn was also the WBC Super-Middleweight Champion, Eubank fought Benn for that title and it was a draw.
Joe Calzaghe is the current WBO Super-Middleweight champion, he's unbeaten but none of the top guys will fight him.
MikeyT said:
Joe Calzaghe is the current WBO Super-Middleweight champion, he's unbeaten but none of the top guys will fight him.
Who has he fought of note since Eubank though? Only Robin Reid really ...
Richie Woodhall, Mitchell, Brewer about the stretch of it...would love to see him take on the top guys but why the fight's aren't being made I dunno.
He's 40 and 0, I think they're avoiding him.
Sven Ottke who held WBA and IBF titles took 12 rounds to beat Tocker Podwill, Calzaghe made him look like a guy off the street. 2 rounds.
your mate sounds like one of those 'i could beat all of them after a few pints' types 
pound for pound Nav could outpunch almost every weight category. he was a superlative technical boxer and one of the best 'fighters' i've ever seen.
Sadly he also has an ego to match...and he just doidnt grant enough respect to people...Barrera is an excellent fighter...miles away in terms of real skill and underlying talent (IMO) but nigh on knockoutable....which is what Naz did to people. Naz lost because instead of outboxing him he showboated, pissed around as always and failed to win early on. I think the lack of rematch or anything else was becuase his 'i am the greatest ever' image couldn't deal with losing.....
was he as good as Benn, Eubank etc...? who knows. It's one of those great impossibles. like 'what would have been the outcome of Tyson and Ali at their respective bests....
pound for pound Nav could outpunch almost every weight category. he was a superlative technical boxer and one of the best 'fighters' i've ever seen.
Sadly he also has an ego to match...and he just doidnt grant enough respect to people...Barrera is an excellent fighter...miles away in terms of real skill and underlying talent (IMO) but nigh on knockoutable....which is what Naz did to people. Naz lost because instead of outboxing him he showboated, pissed around as always and failed to win early on. I think the lack of rematch or anything else was becuase his 'i am the greatest ever' image couldn't deal with losing.....
was he as good as Benn, Eubank etc...? who knows. It's one of those great impossibles. like 'what would have been the outcome of Tyson and Ali at their respective bests....
Naz was a tit but I do think he was a quality boxer - technically and also in terms of power.
Sadly he was misguided and started to believe in the hype.
As good as Eubank & Benn were, IMO Steve Collins was the man. Everybody avoided him once he'd beaten Eubank, including Roy Jones, who most of America class as the best MW & LHW.
Sadly he was misguided and started to believe in the hype.
As good as Eubank & Benn were, IMO Steve Collins was the man. Everybody avoided him once he'd beaten Eubank, including Roy Jones, who most of America class as the best MW & LHW.
I distinctly remember the Nigel Benn v Gerald McClellan fight in February 1995.
On the Friday night I collapsed in my gym and was taken to hospital with a suspected collapsed lung. After they'd done all their stuff and stabilised me I ended up in a single room on the Saturday with drips attached to my hands on either side of my bed and hooked up to some monitors.
I'd been waiting weeks for the Benn fight and I asked the nurse where the TV room was, she said well down the corridor but I'm afraid you're not going anywhere.
I said well the Benn fights coming on so either me and and all these drips and monitors are going to the TV room or I get a TV. 10 Minutes later they're wheeling in a TV and handing me the remote !
It was a brilliant fight even though I remember Benn being lucky not to be counted out in the first.
>> Edited by Hilts on Saturday 17th September 21:12
On the Friday night I collapsed in my gym and was taken to hospital with a suspected collapsed lung. After they'd done all their stuff and stabilised me I ended up in a single room on the Saturday with drips attached to my hands on either side of my bed and hooked up to some monitors.
I'd been waiting weeks for the Benn fight and I asked the nurse where the TV room was, she said well down the corridor but I'm afraid you're not going anywhere.
I said well the Benn fights coming on so either me and and all these drips and monitors are going to the TV room or I get a TV. 10 Minutes later they're wheeling in a TV and handing me the remote !
It was a brilliant fight even though I remember Benn being lucky not to be counted out in the first.
>> Edited by Hilts on Saturday 17th September 21:12
Your friend is misguided IMHO.
Calazghe is for me one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world and certainly capable of beating the likes of Tarver and Johnson. I'd also expect him to beat Jones Junior too if the latter's recent fights are anything to go by. Now, consider that a post-prime (I took think he was never the same after the Watson fight) Eubank took Calzaghe 12 rounds when Calazghe was young and probably hungrier than he is now... I have yet to see anyone with a clearly better chin and heart than Chris Eubank - Calzaghe was the only man ever to put him down and no-one ever knocked him out.
Hamed was a wonderful fighter. Punching power like that had not been seen at that weight for a long time. I remeber my boxing trainer criticising me a few years ago for throwing punches without setting me feet. He said, "The only fighter I've seen who can throw a knockout punch like that is Hamed." Couple that power with incredible hand-speed (much of which came down to him being so relaxed, meaning his punches were faster) and you have an awesome combination. Sadly, Barrera is one of the all-time greats and Hamed needed to turn up with a plan and 110% commitment to stand a chance and he had neither. Personally I still think Hamed could ultimately have been even better than Barrera, but his heart wasn't in it.
Regarding Benn, another great fighter, but he lacked Eubank's chin. He had an amazing fight against Gerald Mclellan (who was expected to destroy Benn) which sadly ended in tragedy.
Watson, again quality.
Collins? Well, he beat Benn and Eubank, but I don't think he would have beaten either of them in his prime. He hit Eubank with everything he had and couldn't seriously hurt him. At the end of one of their fights Eubank had practically knocked him out and then backed-off. Another example of the post-Watson blues?
Calazghe is for me one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world and certainly capable of beating the likes of Tarver and Johnson. I'd also expect him to beat Jones Junior too if the latter's recent fights are anything to go by. Now, consider that a post-prime (I took think he was never the same after the Watson fight) Eubank took Calzaghe 12 rounds when Calazghe was young and probably hungrier than he is now... I have yet to see anyone with a clearly better chin and heart than Chris Eubank - Calzaghe was the only man ever to put him down and no-one ever knocked him out.
Hamed was a wonderful fighter. Punching power like that had not been seen at that weight for a long time. I remeber my boxing trainer criticising me a few years ago for throwing punches without setting me feet. He said, "The only fighter I've seen who can throw a knockout punch like that is Hamed." Couple that power with incredible hand-speed (much of which came down to him being so relaxed, meaning his punches were faster) and you have an awesome combination. Sadly, Barrera is one of the all-time greats and Hamed needed to turn up with a plan and 110% commitment to stand a chance and he had neither. Personally I still think Hamed could ultimately have been even better than Barrera, but his heart wasn't in it.
Regarding Benn, another great fighter, but he lacked Eubank's chin. He had an amazing fight against Gerald Mclellan (who was expected to destroy Benn) which sadly ended in tragedy.
Watson, again quality.
Collins? Well, he beat Benn and Eubank, but I don't think he would have beaten either of them in his prime. He hit Eubank with everything he had and couldn't seriously hurt him. At the end of one of their fights Eubank had practically knocked him out and then backed-off. Another example of the post-Watson blues?
Hilts said:
Heads-up Fight Fans
We now come to the main event of the evening. /Jimmy Lennon Jnr.
Marco Antonio Barrera (WBC Champ) v Robbie Peden (IBF Champ) Sky Sports. 0200 today.
Is the same Barrera that put an end to Naz?
Also,who were the fighters Naz beat when he went over there? There was Kevin "Boom boom" Johnson....who else?
>> Edited by DJ111S on Sunday 18th September 11:27
DJ111S said:
Heads-up Fight Fans
We now come to the main event of the evening. /Jimmy Lennon Jnr.
Marco Antonio Barrera (WBC Champ) v Robbie Peden (IBF Champ) Sky Sports. 0200 today.
Is the same Barrera that put an end to Naz?
Also,who were the fighters Naz beat when he went over there? There was Kevin "Boom boom" Johnson....who else?
>> Edited by DJ111S on Sunday 18th September 11:27
Yes the same Barrera, he won last night easily, now IBF and WBC champ at 31. He beat Naz over 12 rounds, quite a close fight but I don't think Naz fancied his chances in a rematch, he only fought once after that.
You're thinking of Tom Johnson, Naz beat him to win the IBF title and he also beat Cesar Soto to win the WBC title.
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