Are military aircraft tracked by radar?
Discussion
Just wondered as where I live, I quite often see low flying Tornadoes from RAF Marham, Harriers from ? and various American aircraft from Lakenheath and Mildenhall as they head out towards the Wash and North Norfolk coast. We also occasionally see the Battle of Britain Memorial flight.
Do the various bases oversee it all or are they tracked on civilan radar - or are they not tracked at all given their (generally speaking) low altitude?
Do the various bases oversee it all or are they tracked on civilan radar - or are they not tracked at all given their (generally speaking) low altitude?
mel said:
Depends how low. But they would generally have IFF transponders on that would indentify them to all other aircraft and air traffic control.
Sometimes they skirt around our village (in the middle of the countryside) at around 250 ft (at an educated guess) and are sometimes really shifting it with re-heat!
shadytree said:Unless it is fitted with radar reflectors, as most are when flying non-combat missions through civilian airspace (eg. flying to and from an airshow)
Unless of course it's a F-117 Stealth , then it gives a radar signature of a small sparrow
>> Edited by JonRB on Monday 12th September 14:02
It depends if they are in controlled Airspace. There isn’t much around Marham, its in that area where we do our delivery test flights, so the crew usually fly by looking out the window, VFR, or they can get a Radar service from London Military. Marham or one of the other numerous MATZ.
When the Aircraft enter controlled Airspace they have to talk to a controller and have a transponder code, just like a civvy airliner.
Low level stuff is done VFR so no need to chat to anyone, but they are always there is they need them.
When the Aircraft enter controlled Airspace they have to talk to a controller and have a transponder code, just like a civvy airliner.
Low level stuff is done VFR so no need to chat to anyone, but they are always there is they need them.
The various bases oversee the traffic near to them so if you were flying anywhere from around Ely in the west to Diss in the east you would be talking to Lakenheath. When you get further away from a military base the civilian unit you are talking to will give you a heads-up if they can see it (obviously they have problems due to the low altitude.) Military aircraft also have a special transponder code to indicate that they are flying at low level.
w00dy said:
I beleive they are - but by military controllers at NATS sites.
correctamundo!
London Mil or Scottish Mil generally deal with them all....obviously handing over to civilian controllers if they are passing through civilian airways.....often civilian stuff gets handed over to the mil controllers for certain routes/areas.
AWACS airborne radar controllers manage a lot of the 'hot stuff' under TAD.....(callsign Magic usually)
I'm a big fan of Mil comms
i like the story about the famous ATC conversation where the USAF pilot asks permission for flight level change to 600 (60,000ft!) .....the incredulous civilian controller replies 'you are cleared FL 600....IF you can make that!'.....the USAF pilot replies......'okay ,roger that....we are cleared to descend to FL 600.....'
Sorry if the quote is not word for word perfect but i just like that one!
SR-71? or U2?
Sorry if the quote is not word for word perfect but i just like that one!
SR-71? or U2?
My uderstanding is that air traffic control radars aren't really radars but merely recievers that listen for an aircrafts transponder, therefore a boeing 747 can drop off the scope at the flick of a switch 
Mil radars on the other hand are active search radars that can acquire and track stuff (like mach 1 sparrows etc). Is that right, or have I been reading too much Tom Clancy? 
Mil radars on the other hand are active search radars that can acquire and track stuff (like mach 1 sparrows etc). Is that right, or have I been reading too much Tom Clancy? C C said:
All planes show up on radar above a certain height. Unless of course it's a F-117 Stealth , then it gives a radar signature of a small sparrow
The dead give-away is that small sparrows don’t travel at 680 mph.
Sparrows dont drop poop that can drop on a target and explode!
MilnerR said:
My uderstanding is that air traffic control radars aren't really radars but merely recievers that listen for an aircrafts transponder, therefore a boeing 747 can drop off the scope at the flick of a switch
Heathrow special didn't have any problem tracking us when our transponder stopped working a couple of months back.
The USAF "Caberra" was known as the Martin B-57. It was originally very similar to the RAF Canberra B2/6 but over the years Martin evolved the design. The first major change was the replacement of the original Canberra cockpit canopy with a longer canopy over a tandem seat cockpt. Later versions had extended wingspans as well.
Civilian radars are not passive only. They will pick up ANY object within their range. However, the object will remain an anonymous "blip" until the aircraft is asked to enter a code into the on-board transponder. Once the radar picks up the broadcast from the transponder, a label showing the aircraft's call sign and other data will follow its blip across the air traffic controller's screen.
I think the two systems are called "Primary Radar" and "Secondary Surveillance Radar".
Civilian radars are not passive only. They will pick up ANY object within their range. However, the object will remain an anonymous "blip" until the aircraft is asked to enter a code into the on-board transponder. Once the radar picks up the broadcast from the transponder, a label showing the aircraft's call sign and other data will follow its blip across the air traffic controller's screen.
I think the two systems are called "Primary Radar" and "Secondary Surveillance Radar".
MilnerR said:
My uderstanding is that air traffic control radars aren't really radars but merely recievers that listen for an aircrafts transponder, therefore a boeing 747 can drop off the scope at the flick of a switch
Civilian primary radar are 'Proper Bo' active radars that paint a 'return' when they 'ping' you ...i.e. if it's in range a controller will see it......the SSR (secondary surveilance radar) transponder system merely provides the detail about the flight height/hdg/speed etc....and yes if you switch off the transponder you will lose the labelling info but not the image.......therefore there is no 'auto-stealth' mode in modern aircraft unless we are talking F-117 or B2 .......incidentally......in modern mode S transponders the aircraft transponders 'talk' to other aircrafts transponders to correlate TCAS avoidance measures
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